New Group Request

[table1349]

Any chance of creating a separate C&C forum and getting it out of the beginners forum?

 

[Big Mike]

Really...you want to open up that can of worms? :lmao:

We've had many incarnations of a C&C section and it always seemed to cause a lot of problems. You might even have been around for some of them.

I think we may be open to the idea, but there needs to be more of a plan put forward.

 

[terri]

I believe one of the members has already created a series of Groups for this....PM Overread. He has split them out according to skill levels.

C&C is going to remain member-driven, so Groups are the way to pursue this. If Overread isn't maintaining his groups, see about taking it (them) over rather than creating duplicates.

And market yourselves! If the groups are active, spread the word!

 

[Overread]

I believe one of the members has already created a series of Groups for this....PM Overread. He has split them out according to skill levels.

C&C is going to remain member-driven, so Groups are the way to pursue this. If Overread isn't maintaining his groups, see about taking it (them) over rather than creating duplicates.

And market yourselves! If the groups are active, spread the word!

heh your right I did start that up - but they were not broken down into skill groups, more it was getting a group of members (8 per group) together and then each group would run on its own, the main objective being each person submitting one image per week and commenting (As well as they could) on the other 7 members weekly image.
I did start well, but I did go on a bit of an AOWL trip right after starting and they seem to have died down - I'm trying to get them going again though.

Certainly I was hoping that each group would find their own "leader" and run on their own - so anyone willing to head a group would be more than welcome

 

[terri]

Sounds like you and the OP may need to connect.

 

[table1349]

Really...you want to open up that can of worms? :lmao:

We've had many incarnations of a C&C section and it always seemed to cause a lot of problems. You might even have been around for some of them.

I think we may be open to the idea, but there needs to be more of a plan put forward.

Yes I do.


Actually, my thought process was to split the Beginners Forum from the Photo Gallery portion, renaming it the Photo Gallery C&C Forum and leaving them both in the Foundations of Photography area. That would allow beginners questions to be more readily viewed and answered and have a separate place for C&C since many of the posters requesting C&C are not beginners.

That would provide us with a Beginners forum, a beyond beginners forum, a Photography discussion forum, a Gear discussion forum and a C&C forum that fits in with the other discussion forums.

Photos where C&C is not the main focus of the post would then go into the appropriate Photo Gallery sub forum for display. I don't see where splitting the Beginners forum from the C&C forum and leaving them both under the Photography Discussions area would cause any more trouble than there is now.

 

[usayit]

my 2 cents.... I believe I brought this up several years ago when I was confused if photos should be allowed in the Beginners section. I agree with Gryph but I don't think yet-another-sub-forum would help. I think we have too many already with no obvious boundaries for new members.

Foundations of Photography (Discussion only):
* Photographic Discussions (as is.. non-technical)
* Photographic Equipment & Products: News Reviews (as is)
* Technical Photography & techniques (technical)

It should be that simple.

No C&C or gallery postings in the "Foundations of Photography". No more members pondering if their question goes in beginner or beyond basics. No more members trying to figure out if they should request opinions on their photo in the beginner's or in the appropriate "galleries" sub-forum. Foundations should be for discussions only unless a photo is used to spark a discussion or further the discussion. All C&C and photo posting should be put in the appropriate subforum under "Photo Galleries".

The point is.. the organization should be clear cut.

This is basically modeling that portion of the TPF after the Business District forum that has forums dedicated to discussions of nontechnical and technical with a completely separate area for professional galleries.

 

[table1349]

The idea of discussion is why I suggested that a C&C forum stay where it is now, as it is a part of discussion. Those beginners and other posters are looking for discussion, suggestions on their shots.

The gallery section is more of the fireworks on the 4th of July area for the oohh's and aahh's of photos posted.

I have no objection to a beginners question area. I think it important that newbies have a place to feel comfortable and ask questions. I know that my personal patience level goes up in the newbie section, and goes down when a very newbie question is posted in an advance forum.

 

[usayit]

The gallery section is more of the fireworks on the 4th of July area for the oohh's and aahh's of photos posted.

Oh.. really.. It was my understanding that the Photo Gallery was to include critique as well as those oohhs and aahs photos. I just keep running into ideas for threads that could go into one of two or more different forums/subforums. I'm sure I am not the only one.

The description posted under the photo gallery section:
"Photos submitted by members for general display or critique."

 

[table1349]

The gallery section is more of the fireworks on the 4th of July area for the oohh's and aahh's of photos posted.

Oh.. really.. It was my understanding that the Photo Gallery was to include critique as well as those oohhs and aahs photos. I just keep running into ideas for threads that could go into one of two or more different forums/subforums. I'm sure I am not the only one.

The description posted under the photo gallery section:
"Photos submitted by members for general display or critique."

I would have no complaint if we got the photo gallery out of the beginners section at all and make it a discussion, minus the C&C threads. Let all the C&C go in the Photo Gallery section. Works for me that way as well.

 

[manaheim]

Over--- I kinda failed to help out last time, but I'd be happy to run a group if that's the right way to go.

That being said, I am a fan of a more formal and disciplined structure of the forum itself.

 

[terri]

my 2 cents.... I believe I brought this up several years ago when I was confused if photos should be allowed in the Beginners section. I agree with Gryph but I don't think yet-another-sub-forum would help. I think we have too many already with no obvious boundaries for new members.

Foundations of Photography (Discussion only):
* Photographic Discussions (as is.. non-technical)
* Photographic Equipment & Products: News Reviews (as is)
* Technical Photography & techniques (technical)

It should be that simple.

No C&C or gallery postings in the "Foundations of Photography". No more members pondering if their question goes in beginner or beyond basics. No more members trying to figure out if they should request opinions on their photo in the beginner's or in the appropriate "galleries" sub-forum. Foundations should be for discussions only unless a photo is used to spark a discussion or further the discussion. All C&C and photo posting should be put in the appropriate subforum under "Photo Galleries".

The point is.. the organization should be clear cut.

This is basically modeling that portion of the TPF after the Business District forum that has forums dedicated to discussions of nontechnical and technical with a completely separate area for professional galleries.

What you are describing is a reincarnation of the TPF forums, from some years back. At one time, the forum layout looked very similar to this description.

Under this layout, after some time had passed, the complaints that started were as follows:

* "The newbies are cluttering up the Discussion forum with all their newbie questions!!! :x Can we please, please get them their own Beginner's forum?!? I never know when I go into the Discussion forum how many threads will be from the more advanced photogs, and those are the only ones I want to read! If there were a Beginner's forum, we could just stay away or at least know if we go in there what level of experience to expect. Please!! I don't want to waste my time here opening up beginner's threads!"

Then came more:

* "The newbies are cluttering up all the Galleries with their beginner's photos!! They post a picture of a telephone pole and expect serious C&C! Can we please, please, let them post their photos in the Beginner's forum? Maybe a subforum? I never know when I open a thread what kind of crap I'm going to have to look at, and if I knew it was from a beginner I could skip it!"

So here's another example of coming full circle. :razz:

We've tinkered endlessly with various forums/subforums, newbie v experienced, casual v. pro, film user v digital - trying to find that happy place where everyone knows where to post because they read the flippin' forum descriptions and they comfortably assign themselves to various categories. Except....it doesn't go quite like that. Right?

You must come to appreciate that providing all the subforums/galleries for this special group or that one, rarely changes anything in the end, for if people don't read carefully we will always have mis-posts. I've been here since virtually the forum's conception and I can assure you, there is no magic bullet.

I appreciate the feedback, but right now the best thing to do is to continue with the setup as is. Please give a shout when threads need to be moved. Don't be concerned with the Report function only being used for spam - if more threads get moved then more users will get the idea.

As far as the original C&C intent of this thread, I believe we are going to stick with the idea of using the groups that some members have already started. Sign yourselves up, and discuss amongst yourselves how you want them laid out - and spread the word!! *Real* C&C will not be a regular forum anytime soon. When people ask about it, direct them to the appropriate group.

 

[manaheim]

<chuckle>

And thus the current plan rears it's ugly head again.

Member driven=leave it the way it is, shut up, stop complaining, we're not changing it.

Too funny.

 

[terri]

<chuckle>

And thus the current plan rears it's ugly head again.

Member driven=leave it the way it is, shut up, stop complaining, we're not changing it.

Too funny.

If you read what was said up there, I am only pointing out that we've gone down this path many, many times.

Groups is a recent enhancement of vB. We DO encourage the place to be member-driven so you can create your own guidelines in certain areas where it's difficult to gain consensus.

What of it?

If you want to sneer at my explanations because they're not suiting your immediate needs, you are free to do so. But do not put words in my mouth.

 

[table1349]

my 2 cents.... I believe I brought this up several years ago when I was confused if photos should be allowed in the Beginners section. I agree with Gryph but I don't think yet-another-sub-forum would help. I think we have too many already with no obvious boundaries for new members.

Foundations of Photography (Discussion only):
* Photographic Discussions (as is.. non-technical)
* Photographic Equipment & Products: News Reviews (as is)
* Technical Photography & techniques (technical)

It should be that simple.

No C&C or gallery postings in the "Foundations of Photography". No more members pondering if their question goes in beginner or beyond basics. No more members trying to figure out if they should request opinions on their photo in the beginner's or in the appropriate "galleries" sub-forum. Foundations should be for discussions only unless a photo is used to spark a discussion or further the discussion. All C&C and photo posting should be put in the appropriate subforum under "Photo Galleries".

The point is.. the organization should be clear cut.

This is basically modeling that portion of the TPF after the Business District forum that has forums dedicated to discussions of nontechnical and technical with a completely separate area for professional galleries.

What you are describing is a reincarnation of the TPF forums, from some years back. At one time, the forum layout looked very similar to this description.

Under this layout, after some time had passed, the complaints that started were as follows:

* "The newbies are cluttering up the Discussion forum with all their newbie questions!!! :x Can we please, please get them their own Beginner's forum?!? I never know when I go into the Discussion forum how many threads will be from the more advanced photogs, and those are the only ones I want to read! If there were a Beginner's forum, we could just stay away or at least know if we go in there what level of experience to expect. Please!! I don't want to waste my time here opening up beginner's threads!"

Then came more:

* "The newbies are cluttering up all the Galleries with their beginner's photos!! They post a picture of a telephone pole and expect serious C&C! Can we please, please, let them post their photos in the Beginner's forum? Maybe a subforum? I never know when I open a thread what kind of crap I'm going to have to look at, and if I knew it was from a beginner I could skip it!"

So here's another example of coming full circle. :razz:

We've tinkered endlessly with various forums/subforums, newbie v experienced, casual v. pro, film user v digital - trying to find that happy place where everyone knows where to post because they read the flippin' forum descriptions and they comfortably assign themselves to various categories. Except....it doesn't go quite like that. Right?

You must come to appreciate that providing all the subforums/galleries for this special group or that one, rarely changes anything in the end, for if people don't read carefully we will always have mis-posts. I've been here since virtually the forum's conception and I can assure you, there is no magic bullet.

I appreciate the feedback, but right now the best thing to do is to continue with the setup as is. Please give a shout when threads need to be moved. Don't be concerned with the Report function only being used for spam - if more threads get moved then more users will get the idea.

As far as the original C&C intent of this thread, I believe we are going to stick with the idea of using the groups that some members have already started. Sign yourselves up, and discuss amongst yourselves how you want them laid out - and spread the word!! *Real* C&C will not be a regular forum anytime soon. When people ask about it, direct them to the appropriate group.

If I am reading your last paragraph right, then how about taking the Photo Gallery out of the beginners form leaving it and the others in that group for discussion and the Gallery area for all photo postings for review?