HELP! Bad Photo Shoot/Gig: How to deal with the aftermath

[nonamexx]

I'm really confused...

You've made that rather clear...

No. I am not. I have made myself clear and people are still having doubts about it forcing me to get confused about where the debate is heading

P.S. I don't know whether you're teasing me or trying to attack me, but either way, I stick to what I've said before. Whenever I make a plain statement, it's being interpreted in weird ways and drawing me into further conversation.

I truly have no idea what you're up to except to score a point against me.

 

[Ballistics]

It doesn't even have to be apprenticeship. You can still take the advise of your fellow professionals without necessarily being their apprentice.

Example:

There is this car mechanic that is "The best mechanic shop in town." This car mechanic has now partnered in business with you, a newcomer to the automotive scene, and you are now working together in this shop. The consumer still isn't paying for your knowledge, your skills, or your experiences, they are paying for his. With that, his reputation extends out to you, that your work will meet and exceed his standards. If you were to branch off without him, and do your own thing, I highly doubt you could get away with charging the same thing that he charges, and maintain your clientele. You simply don't have the reputation to precede you.

No, I meant you gain his experience and also ask how much he used to charge when he was inexperienced and starting out. Then do the math for the inflation or present market. By asking more people, you get a fair idea of what fees are the norm when you start out in a profession. Normally it's flexible and as you gain experience, you keep re-evaluating.

Not as simple as you made it out to be...now is it?

 

[AaronLLockhart]

It doesn't even have to be apprenticeship. You can still take the advise of your fellow professionals without necessarily being their apprentice.

Example:

There is this car mechanic that is "The best mechanic shop in town." This car mechanic has now partnered in business with you, a newcomer to the automotive scene, and you are now working together in this shop. The consumer still isn't paying for your knowledge, your skills, or your experiences, they are paying for his. With that, his reputation extends out to you, that your work will meet and exceed his standards. If you were to branch off without him, and do your own thing, I highly doubt you could get away with charging the same thing that he charges, and maintain your clientele. You simply don't have the reputation to precede you.

No, I meant you gain his experience and also ask how much he used to charge when he was inexperienced and starting out. Then do the math for the inflation or present market. By asking more people, you get a fair idea of what fees are the norm when you start out in a profession. Normally it's flexible and as you gain experience, you keep re-evaluating.

No contest there. However, I hope his overhead was the same amount yours is, otherwise you're in a world of hurt.

 

[nonamexx]

Not as simple as you made it out to be...now is it?

It is simple enough to me. I guess for the intellectually challenged it's not.

I think now this is starting to get silly. It's not THAT hard to figure out the market value for your services even when starting out. People are making it sound like it's more than rocket-science.

 

[Ballistics]

Not as simple as you made it out to be...now is it?

It is simple enough to me. I guess for the intellectually challenged it's not.

What are you 14? Can't have a debate without resorting to petty insults? How pathetic.

 

[Photographiend]

harishankar - I am just starting out myself and while my efforts come fueled by the audacious fantasy that I will be a fantastic photographer one day, I never in my wildest dreams could imagine charging someone for my work.

We are not well off. My husband provides through his work but is grossly underpaid. Would it be nice to find a way to supplement the income? Yeah. But I am a "photographer" (term loosely applied meaning person who owns a camera and likes to take pictures) still in their infancy and I know that.

As a Legal worker you should have a good understanding of "Liability". Once you charge for your work, you become Liable. You are expected to perform a service and if/when it does not meet your clients expectations you can be taken to court. This is a common thing here in the USA and the key factor behind my idea that I would rather NOT EVER charge a dime for photography. I want to enjoy what I am doing, I want offer my service to friends and family when and where I can so I can learn and grow and hopefully become great. Should I ever make a name for myself I have a whole business model in my mind that wouldn't earn me a dime because for me as soon as I start associating a monetary value with my work it cheapens it for me. It adds a whole new level of stress that I personally would rather not deal with. Would be like asking your spouse to start paying you based off your daily performance.

"You were a ***** today so I am not paying you."

or "That was an amazing dinner. Here is $5."

It is my understanding that people who get into this line of work do so for the love of photography. That is where is builds from. The love of money won't help you become a better photographer. IMO.

 

[pixmedic]

I think the OP has gotten plenty of good advice on how to handle the friend and the pictures. the thread has ventured pretty close to the end of its usefulness.

 

[Ballistics]

About value to market: I think you have to set a benchmark early and live up to it.

Okay.

How would someone do that, especially if they have no real experience?

Simple. You don't work in isolation. This is where professional colleagues can help. Especially somebody senior to you who can mentor and help out.

By the way, I do have a colleague who is my senior by experience (though junior in age), and we do work together. I am not yet at the stage where I can branch out on my own.

I'm really confused. Does everybody work in a vaccuum?? If you have no idea what to charge for what service when starting out, you need to interface with experienced members of your profession.

You are all over the place, you contradict yourself, and you change points constantly.

You talk about something of this effect being "simple" and then ask if everyone lives in a vacuum. In a perfect world, all of this would be "simple",
but you're comparing yourself, who works in a firm with colleagues, to a freelancing photographer who does not. But... it's SO simple!

 

[nonamexx]

Not as simple as you made it out to be...now is it?

It is simple enough to me. I guess for the intellectually challenged it's not.

What are you 14? Can't have a debate without resorting to petty insults? How pathetic.

You did the petty insults first. Go back and read your posts on me first.

 

[amolitor]

That's one Helluva' debate technique: "I'm going to introduce an idea into the conversation but, if anyone asks me about it, I'll refuse to talk about it".

How silly...

He didn't "introduce it into debate". It was a side remark, clearly separated from the thrust of what he was saying.

You, however, appear to be trying to turn this into a political debate.

He used it to make a point; one which is open to challenge.

That's how the internet works.

Enfuriatin', innit?

This is completely false. His position is, in fact, OPPOSED to free work as a general thing. He mentioned the poor people in a postscript, as an aside. It was a remark that is in fact 180 degrees opposed to the thrust of his argument, and it seems frankly to serve no purpose.

You saw the 'deserving poor' dog-whistle phrase and tried to start a polictical fight. Hari, to his credit, failed to take you up on it.

 

[Steve5D]

I truly have no idea what you're up to except to score a point against me.

I've no need to score points...

 

[tirediron]

Okay, it took longer than I thought, but this has finally devolved into the argument I anticipated about five pages back. Everyone grab a camera and go outside and take a picture!