Dating and identifying cameras

[Mitica100]

I'm going to have a question for you, Mitica, as soon as I can lay my hands on my hubby's new Rollei (no, NOT the WA - but he did get an apparently REALLY good deal on something else, as we discovered when we unwrapped the thing).

How are you with dating and typing Rollei lenses??

Well... I'm too old for dating... :lmao: He he... couldn't resist.


No problemo, just throw something at me and I'll tell you when it was made and model #.

 

[Kent Frost]

 

[terri]

Well... I'm too old for dating... :lmao: He he... couldn't resist.


No problemo, just throw something at me and I'll tell you when it was made and model #.

Actually, when I typed "dating and typing" I couldn't help but think of "crossing and typing" like one does with human blood to determine blood type. Sick, eh? I've been in the medical field way too long!

I have a great story about this new Rollei, along with the tad of uncertainty over its year of production. Brad is pretty sure of the year, but there is a # on the lens he's been unable to identify.

 

[terri]

Okay, Mitica! Here is the Story of Brad's NEW Rollei......

So, the old man was perusing ebay for camera porn (you guys are all nasty, you know that?) and he came across this Rolleiflex. It was advertised as a 3.5f with a Tessar lens. Pictures looked incredible, and it was supposedly the seller’s grandfather’s camera. So….he had shown up late in the auction, and as the time ticked down to the end he kept waiting for more bids to show up, since it was only showing about $350. He couldn’t stand seeing this great-looking thing going for only $350, when it looked like it should go for around $500 in this condition. So – he decided to play “spoiler” and in a strange moment he decides to toss out a bid for $450 to bring it up so whoever the lucky winner was couldn’t get it for cheap. Don’t ask, he just had a moment and did it. :roll: WELL – no one came back and he ended up winning it, for $385. He was happy.... but you guys would laugh if you’d heard him trying to explain: “Honey….um….I think I screwed up….but I think I got a good deal….” Lucky for him I am totally understanding about these things.

SO – it arrived a few days ago. Leather case, lens cap, close-up lens kit included, blah blah – no question it was sparkling, amazing showroom quality. He takes off the lens cap – and it’s a Planar lens! No, mistakes like this aren’t supposed to happen, and we looked again at the auction and sure enough, this seller really made a grievous error. So Brad has been dancing with joy while trying to find out every detail he can about this STEAL of a deal. :cheer:

Well, we think we’ve narrowed it down to this. We know it is a 3.5f and we think a model 4. The serial # is 2826929 which we’re pretty sure puts it being manufactured in 1969. :?: Our only question now is: is this a 5 element or 6 element Planar? We understand that a weak 6th element was added something during the production line of the 3.5f ....but we’re not sure when. We’re assuming that since it was a late production (1969) that it does have the 6th lens element…. But don’t know how to make sure.

Feeling challenged yet?? :mrgreen: Would love it if you could shed any light on this lens element mystery.

As a postscript, the reason this is such a big deal to him is that the Rollei he's been using happily for years is a Rolleiflex Automat, 1955 with a Xenar 3.5/75. He gets that this is basically Schneider's Tessar lens design, so he is totally pumped to suddenly have a Planar (as opposed to a Xenar clone).

 

[oriecat]

He couldn’t stand seeing this great-looking thing going for only $350, when it looked like it should go for around $500 in this condition. So – he decided to play “spoiler” and in a strange moment he decides to toss out a bid for $450 to bring it up so whoever the lucky winner was couldn’t get it for cheap.

Terri, your husband is evil! That's just not nice! :mrgreen:

 

[Mitica100]

SO – it arrived a few days ago. Leather case, lens cap, close-up lens kit included, blah blah – no question it was sparkling, amazing showroom quality. He takes off the lens cap – and it’s a Planar lens! No, mistakes like this aren’t supposed to happen, and we looked again at the auction and sure enough, this seller really made a grievous error. So Brad has been dancing with joy while trying to find out every detail he can about this STEAL of a deal. :cheer:

Well, we think we’ve narrowed it down to this. We know it is a 3.5f and we think a model 4. The serial # is 2826929 which we’re pretty sure puts it being manufactured in 1969. :?: Our only question now is: is this a 5 element or 6 element Planar? We understand that a weak 6th element was added something during the production line of the 3.5f ....but we’re not sure when. We’re assuming that since it was a late production (1969) that it does have the 6th lens element…. But don’t know how to make sure.

Well... Congrats on the Planar!! I will research it more but for now I will confirm that it is a model 3.5f and was made in 1969, has a bayonet size II.

Planars were grrrrrrreat lenses, as you well know.


Here is a picture of a 3.5 F model, taken from a brochure:

 

[Mitica100]

P.S.

Sorry about the size of the pic but I wanted you to be able to read it well... :mrgreen:

Anyway, the two lens combos were the Planars and the Xenars and from the looks of the ad and the serial number of your Rollei I can guess the Planars were used first. Better lens than the Xenar, IMHO.

As far as which Planar you have I will have to do more research...

 

[Mitica100]

Here is one more photo of the model 3:

​

One noticeable difference between model 3 and model 4 was the provision for a 220 film for model 4.

I have one question: the SN that you gave me, was it the Planar sn or the camera's?​

 

[terri]

Terri, your husband is evil! That's just not nice! :mrgreen:

No, it wasn't, was it? And he choked on it for a couple of hours, apparently, when he realized he'd won the thing and had to come find me and 'fess up his evil deed. It backfired, which is what ALL evil deeds should do. :sillysmi: He felt so guilty!! We don't have money like that to toss around!

Of course, the second he took off that lens cap and saw those tiny letters "Planar" he began to feel much better about his reckless moment. :roll:

 

[terri]

I have one question: the SN that you gave me, was it the Planar sn or the camera's?

Oh, it's the camera's!! And I should have checked the lens. I'm pretty sure it has one. :blushing: I'll get it and post it for you.

Yep....look at that beauty!! It looks better in real life, too. Our camera looks like it barely had 20 rolls of film run through it, it's that pristine. Brad keeps looking at it and just shaking his head.

Oh, and it still had film in it....Kodacolor 100...? I think that's what it was. D/C'd by now, I'm sure.


*Edit: PS - Mitica, you are so cool!!! :thumbup: I love looking at all this stuff....can't wait to show it to Brad. Don't apologize for the image size, you gotta do these babies justice, right?? :mrgreen: Thanks!!

 

[terri]

Okay, Mitica - here is the SN for that Planar lens: 4662884. Any light you can shed will be greatly appreciated. :hugs: Thanks!!

PS - Brad loved the old brochure info you posted. :thumbup: That was fun.

 

[Mitica100]

Terri... I didn't find yet info about the Planar but here is some more on the Rollei from a Rollei Club:


[font=Verdana, arial, helvetica, sans serif]Rolleiflex 3.5 F Model 3 & 3-I, Model K4F
November 1960 - December 1964, 50,000 pieces[/font]

[font=Verdana, arial, helvetica, sans serif]Serials: 3.5F-2.250.00 - 3.5F-2.299.546

Taking Lens:
Tessar 3,5/75mm, Opton PI 3.5/75mm, Carl Zeiss Oberkochen, Bayonet 2

Finder lens:
Zeiss or Schneider Heidosmat 2,8/75mm, Bayonet 2

Model K4F1
January 1965 - December 1976, 71,000 pieces

Serials 1965: 3.5F-2.299.547 - 3.5F-2.814.999, from 1966: 3.5F-2.815.000 - 3.5F-2.857.149

Taking Lens:
Xenotar 3.5/75mm, Schneider, Bayonet 2

Finder lens:
Zeiss or Schneider Heidosmat 2,8/75mm, Bayonet 2[/font]
[font=Verdana, arial, helvetica, sans serif][/font]
[font=Verdana, arial, helvetica, sans serif]Both models:
Shutter:
Synchro Compur MXV, 1 - 1/500 sec., B, M + X-sync., self timer.

Film: 120 for 12 or 24 exp. 6x6, and 35mm adapter Rolleikin 2.
[/font]
[font=Verdana, arial, helvetica, sans serif]Film Transportation: winding lever with auto stop on first exposure, exposure counter for exposures 1-12. Blank film pressure plate.

Can come with or without built in exposure metering.

Dimensions: 11.2x9.8x14.8cm.
Weight: 1,220 grams.[/font]
[font=Verdana, arial, helvetica, sans serif][/font]
[font=Verdana, arial, helvetica, sans serif]Changes during production:

Nov. 1965 # 2.299.547+: takes both 120 and 220 film

Flat glass provision 1956-1966 only, from

Nov. 1966 # 2.815.000+: no longer prepared for flat glass film plate

July 1971 # 2.845.000+: Flat film pressure plate, and blank front panel where factory name is shown under taking lens.[/font]
[font=Verdana, arial, helvetica, sans serif]Can not be used with Rolleimarin.[/font]

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Interesting, they don't mention the Planar as one of the taking lenses.

 

[usayit]

Speaking of russian cameras.... I found this link very useful:

http://www.btinternet.com/~stowupland/index.htm

 

[Mitica100]

I found this useful guide on a different forum:

"Because they are chronological, serial numbers usually do tell the approximate age of a Canon SLR or SLR lens, but Canon Inc. has never put out any sort of public info about it. However, there's another way to get the information: look inside the body's film chamber for an alphanumeric code printed in black ink on the black surface of the film chamber. You may have to hold the camera under a strong light to see it. What you'll see is a date code, possibly something like 'U1140F.'

The first letter tells the year the camera was manufactured: in this case, 1980. It's an alphabetic code; A = 1960, B = 1961,....T = 1979, U = 1980, and so on up to Z = 1985. The next 2 numbers tell you what month the camera was made, in this example, November. (the leading zero for the month code is sometimes omitted, so an A-1 with a code of 'Y362' would have been manufactured in March, 1984, for instance.) The following 2 numbers are an internal code that is irrelevant for determining age, but year and month is close enough anyway, IMO. (This internal code is also occasionally omitted based on reports from Canon owners.) The last letter stands for the name of the factory. In this case, 'F' stands for Fukushima which was the main Canon SLR factory for about 20 years from the early 70s until 1991. (The factory code is rarely omitted, if ever.)

Starting in 1986, the year code was restarted with 'A' again, but the factory code was placed before it. Now that Canon SLRs are no longer manufactured at Fukushima, you're more likely to see a code starting with 'O' for Oita. So, for SLRs manufactured in 1994, you might see a code starting with 'OI' followed by the month code.

Incidentally, the same type of code is printed on the back of most EF lenses as well, typically in small white characters on a black baffle in the rear lens mount. Since Canon's SLR lens factory is in Utsonomiya, you might see a date code starting with
'UG' for a lens manufactured in 1992, for example. Previous to 1986, though, the lens date codes did not include the factory letter."

I hope it helps.

 

[Mitica100]

1. Viewing hood removable? (only the Vb has removable hood).

2. Exposure counter removable with a chrome finger-screw in the
center (if it is, it is a Va or a Vb, and the removable hood decides which it is).

3. Is the focusing knob on the left-hand side of the camera and does it have a film-speed reminder in the center? The Va and Vb have a large knob with reminder on the left. The V has a large knob with reminder on the right. The III and IV have small knobs with no reminder on the right.

4. Which shutter does it have? The IV, V, Va and Vb have Synchro Compur. Earlier cameras have Compur or Compur Rapid. The only difference between a III and IV is that the IV has a Synchro Compur.

5. Is there a red window in the base of the camera for setting frame 1? The III and all later models have no window.

6. If it has a red window, does it have bayonet filter mounts on either just the taking lens (early II, 1937) or both lenses (II from 1938/9).

7. If it has a red window and no bayonet filter mounts, it is an I or an
original (Art Deco) The latter is easily recognizable because is has a diamond patterned front plate.

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All above info from a collector's group I belong to. More to come...