Captain

[malling]

Besides the skin tone being off, I think tinting it gray overall actually takes away from details and variation in tan and sooty fabric, etc. You've got a real firefighter in a uniform with real smudges and marks that got somewhat obscured by the gray. I did a quick search of photos of firefighters and looked at professional ones from newspapers/TV stations and a lot of uniforms are tan and you can see the variation of grimy jackets/uniforms. I think these got too overall gray

I noticed for example the first helmet where there are a couple of black marks on the white part around 'Captain'. I feel like it could better being able to see black marks on offwhite, rather than those being somewhat lost in the gray.

Now there is no rules that dictate that a portrait needs to depict actual colour and skin tone, it’s called creative freedom for a reason. The greyish tone is something that has been used for ages, whether one like it or not is and will always be subjective, personally I think it can have it’s merits if used correctly. In this case I think I contribute to an atmosphere that you would not otherwise get if OP had chosen a more natural colour scheme, a quick search on google on firefighter portraits also shows this.

Secondly using a smoking machine is going to influence on contrast and colour representation.

 

[smoke665]

@vintagesnaps I always appreciate the keen critique and comments by you and others, and I don't want to come off as unappreciative, because I respect every opinion, but most of the things brought up delve more into personal opinion and taste, which can vary greatly. Differences in taste make the world an interesting place but one is never more right than the other. I can and do occasionally take more conventional portraiture shots which would represent the realism you describe, but personally find them boring. I'm at a point in life where I enjoy the freedom of restrictions to explore and work in whatever creative direction I choose. As I pointed out in another thread on the same subject, this series does not follow a conventional portraiture approach nor were they intended to be. The choice of all colors, tones, processing, etc., were deliberate choices made to achieve a predetermined vision for the set. While I realize and expect that there might be some that don't like this sort of vision, it is never the less the one I liked and created for the series. Based on other positive responses here as well as the feedback from the subject and his peers in the department, it will be the one I continue with as I start on the second shoot this weekend.

 

[Photo Lady]

Great photos... so rugged and thank god for firemen

 

[DanOstergren]

Besides the skin tone being off, I think tinting it gray overall actually takes away from details and variation in tan and sooty fabric, etc. You've got a real firefighter in a uniform with real smudges and marks that got somewhat obscured by the gray. I did a quick search of photos of firefighters and looked at professional ones from newspapers/TV stations and a lot of uniforms are tan and you can see the variation of grimy jackets/uniforms. I think these got too overall gray

I noticed for example the first helmet where there are a couple of black marks on the white part around 'Captain'. I feel like it could better being able to see black marks on offwhite, rather than those being somewhat lost in the gray.

Now there is no rules that dictate that a portrait needs to depict actual colour and skin tone, it’s called creative freedom for a reason. The greyish tone is something that has been used for ages, whether one like it or not is and will always be subjective, personally I think it can have it’s merits if used correctly. In this case I think I contribute to an atmosphere that you would not otherwise get if OP had chosen a more natural colour scheme, a quick search on google on firefighter portraits also shows this.

No one said there were rules that dictate anything about portraits, but CC was specifically stated as being welcome; responses such as yours say it's unwelcome however. Which is it?

Secondly using a smoking machine is going to influence on contrast and colour representation.

Not as much as you are implying it would, especially considering that there is barely any visible smoke whatsoever in these shots.

 

[DanOstergren]

@vintagesnaps I always appreciate the keen critique and comments by you and others, and I don't want to come off as unappreciative, because I respect every opinion, but most of the things brought up delve more into personal opinion and taste, which can vary greatly. Differences in taste make the world an interesting place but one is never more right than the other. I can and do occasionally take more conventional portraiture shots which would represent the realism you describe, but personally find them boring. I'm at a point in life where I enjoy the freedom of restrictions to explore and work in whatever creative direction I choose. As I pointed out in another thread on the same subject, this series does not follow a conventional portraiture approach nor were they intended to be. The choice of all colors, tones, processing, etc., were deliberate choices made to achieve a predetermined vision for the set. While I realize and expect that there might be some that don't like this sort of vision, it is never the less the one I liked and created for the series. Based on other positive responses here as well as the feedback from the subject and his peers in the department, it will be the one I continue with as I start on the second shoot this weekend.

We're all aware of deliberate artistic choice, but you did say that CC was welcome, so I'm confused on why you're responding by telling us that we're wrong because other people said so.

 

[malling]

Besides the skin tone being off, I think tinting it gray overall actually takes away from details and variation in tan and sooty fabric, etc. You've got a real firefighter in a uniform with real smudges and marks that got somewhat obscured by the gray. I did a quick search of photos of firefighters and looked at professional ones from newspapers/TV stations and a lot of uniforms are tan and you can see the variation of grimy jackets/uniforms. I think these got too overall gray

I noticed for example the first helmet where there are a couple of black marks on the white part around 'Captain'. I feel like it could better being able to see black marks on offwhite, rather than those being somewhat lost in the gray.

Now there is no rules that dictate that a portrait needs to depict actual colour and skin tone, it’s called creative freedom for a reason. The greyish tone is something that has been used for ages, whether one like it or not is and will always be subjective, personally I think it can have it’s merits if used correctly. In this case I think I contribute to an atmosphere that you would not otherwise get if OP had chosen a more natural colour scheme, a quick search on google on firefighter portraits also shows this.

No one said there were rules that dictate anything about portraits, but CC was specifically stated as being welcome; responses such as yours say it's unwelcome however. Which is it?

Secondly using a smoking machine is going to influence on contrast and colour representation.

Not as much as you are implying it would, especially considering that there is barely any visible smoke whatsoever in these shots.

When someone clearly point out the skin tone is incorrect, It’s hardly constructive criticism, as that statement clearly tells that there is a wright and a wrong. The poster could have written it in far more constructive manner.

Criticism is always welcome in my world. however at least try to be constructive.

I’m not implying that it’s going to be as pronounced as the photos in this series, it obviously ain’t going to, for that there is simply not enough smoke for it. However it dos influence, I never stated how much, as how much really depends on the setting and amount of smoke.

 

[Original katomi]

Hi Smoke, you know that I have a reputation for being out of the box. So any chance of other side of the story shots.
Non invasive or morbid but the sort of thing that is not shown . Eg the damaged coat, the day to day boring jobs like re winding the hose, cleaning up after the event.
I am not a firefighter, but I was invited out to a practice shout, and now know there is a lot more that goes on than the
Average person ever sees.
A nod of respect to you and all other firefighters

 

[smoke665]

In this case I think I contribute to an atmosphere that you would not otherwise get if OP had chosen a more natural colour scheme,

Thank you. The original files were processed as conventional portraits, as I do all my images, before creative adjustments take place. I find it easier to start from a good image, rather then making correction on the fly. I could easily have stopped there with solid portraits, but I wanted more. Glad you saw that. I'll add that some of the effect was due to lighting, using a setup patterened after one Joel Grimes uses in his dramatic images. The majority of the processing was done in Lr which further accentuated that lighting, then finished in Ps. No "gray" was added anywhere along the line, there was some selective desaturation and hue adjustment along the way. Again though, there are differing opinions when you cross over that line between reality and creative interpretation, as "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". There is no right or wrong on what we like.

@Original katomi over the years I've been fortunate that my "day job" provided sufficiently that I've been able to give back by volunteering in my community. Small fire departments especially rural departments struggle, they barely have enough to pay the bills, let alone pay firefighters. Our department receives about 40% of our operating budget from tax revenue, another 20% comes in from handouts from various state agencies, and the remaing 40% from fundraisers, and grants. Despite the volunteer status our guys spend countless hours in training, so they can respond at all hours of the night to any emergency. Our district covers an area of over 130 sq miles out of two stations, yet our response times rival many paid departments. I no longer actively respond but remain active in the department serving where neeced, primarily with grant writing, fundraising, training and mentoring. I posted some awhile back of the department "at play" doing a controlled burn on a house that the owner wanted gone.

 

[DaPOPO]

1 & 4 are my favorite. Love the lighting and the editing. If what you were trying to achieve on gritty, tough, manly, you did a great job!

 

[smoke665]

1 & 4 are my favorite. Love the lighting and the editing. If what you were trying to achieve on gritty, tough, manly, you did a great job!

Thank you!!!!!!!!!

 

[DanOstergren]

Besides the skin tone being off, I think tinting it gray overall actually takes away from details and variation in tan and sooty fabric, etc. You've got a real firefighter in a uniform with real smudges and marks that got somewhat obscured by the gray. I did a quick search of photos of firefighters and looked at professional ones from newspapers/TV stations and a lot of uniforms are tan and you can see the variation of grimy jackets/uniforms. I think these got too overall gray

I noticed for example the first helmet where there are a couple of black marks on the white part around 'Captain'. I feel like it could better being able to see black marks on offwhite, rather than those being somewhat lost in the gray.

Now there is no rules that dictate that a portrait needs to depict actual colour and skin tone, it’s called creative freedom for a reason. The greyish tone is something that has been used for ages, whether one like it or not is and will always be subjective, personally I think it can have it’s merits if used correctly. In this case I think I contribute to an atmosphere that you would not otherwise get if OP had chosen a more natural colour scheme, a quick search on google on firefighter portraits also shows this.

No one said there were rules that dictate anything about portraits, but CC was specifically stated as being welcome; responses such as yours say it's unwelcome however. Which is it?

Secondly using a smoking machine is going to influence on contrast and colour representation.

Not as much as you are implying it would, especially considering that there is barely any visible smoke whatsoever in these shots.

When someone clearly point out the skin tone is incorrect, It’s hardly constructive criticism, as that statement clearly tells that there is a wright and a wrong. The poster could have written it in far more constructive manner.

Criticism is always welcome in my world. however at least try to be constructive.

I’m not implying that it’s going to be as pronounced as the photos in this series, it obviously ain’t going to, for that there is simply not enough smoke for it. However it dos influence, I never stated how much, as how much really depends on the setting and amount of smoke.

All I see here is someone complaining because they didn't like the CC that was requested... blah blah blah, next. Vintagesnaps' critique was more than constructive enough. Responses like yours are the reason why others won't say anything more than "Great shot!" to every image posted in photography forums, and why actually valid and valuable critique gets buried behind crap comments like yours.

By all means though, show us your work; I'd love to see where your expert opinions are coming from.

 

[Derrel]

I generally like these, but the first thing I noticed was that the skin tone looks more purple-ish magenta than I would like to see. I think that the first shot has the most purple in the skin tone. If you want C&C well there's mine. I would revisit the processing on these.

Back in the old days of C-prints, a home studio worker would have 6 to 9 different test controls showing him what an image would look like with 10cc or 15cc of variations in several different colors... 10 to 15 units of color correction can make a huge difference in how people perceive am image.

I really don't think the skin tones in the face are optimized yet.

 

[smoke665]

I really don't think the skin tones in the face are optimized yet.

Not sure if it's the web or differences in monitor calibrations. On my monitor and on the android tablet I double chk on, some of these might have a slight red tint, but not enough that I found it objectionable. Part of it might be environmental, there was a gelled red strobe behind him, and smoke swirling around, so that light did bounce around a lot. I'll revisit them again before printing. None of these have been soft proofed to IEC 61966-2-1:1999. I don't generally do proofing till I'm ready to print, and then use my labs custom profiles.

 

[vintagesnaps]

Dan has a point... If we didn't see potential or how fantastic it could be, I don't know if we'd bother with feedback. I see magenta (apparently Derrel sees it/purple too). It just looks off, like there's a need for more adjustment. If you didn't add gray then it apparently is desaturated to a point that you're left with the tones. It's such a potentially beautiful portrait it just seems unfinished/not adjusted and not quite 'there' yet. (My only other nit is the black streaks on the face look like finger streaks done purposefully more than from someone wiping their face,maybe a little too black.)

If it's something personally important then it can be natural to feel a reaction, but then sometimes you gotta step back and try to look at it objectively. I've had to let something go that I liked, had to realize it wasn't working and it had to go, maybe save the idea for something else another time. I've had to put it away for awhile, ask a friend, come back and change it and let it go. Maybe because I've gotten that type feedback from instructors that I learned to make myself redo what didn't work and try again, even as much as I liked it as it was. Later I realize it looks better.

 

[Photo Lady]

wow just so awesome and so professionally accomplished