CANON 7D vs NIKON D7000

[Destin]

D7000 uses the world's first 2,016 segment RGB meter. The 7D uses a 63 zone system with color measurement (probably a B&W meter with luminance).

Its dual layer, 63 zone system, pretty sure its not B&W. The auto focus system is tied into the metering system as well. Even if you only use 1 auto focus point, all of the actual points are always active and relay information to the metering system on whats in focus, and what isn't. The metering system is able to better identify the subject and how much of the frame it takes up etc...

All Canon meters are B&W meters. None of their camera's have color meters, at least to my knowledge. I read this somewhere, but I don't remember where. I wanna say it was in the D7000 review on dpreview

 

[cfusionpm]

D7000 uses the world's first 2,016 segment RGB meter. The 7D uses a 63 zone system with color measurement (probably a B&W meter with luminance).

Its dual layer, 63 zone system, pretty sure its not B&W. The auto focus system is tied into the metering system as well. Even if you only use 1 auto focus point, all of the actual points are always active and relay information to the metering system on whats in focus, and what isn't. The metering system is able to better identify the subject and how much of the frame it takes up etc...

All Canon meters are B&W meters. None of their camera's have color meters, at least to my knowledge. I read this somewhere, but I don't remember where. I wanna say it was in the D7000 review on dpreview

The color-aware iFCL Metering system is used in every camera since the 7D (550D/Rebel T2i, 7D, 1DmkIV, and 60D).

"The EOS 7D SLR features an iFCL 63-zone Dual-layer Metering Sensor. The ‘FCL’ stands for ‘Focus, Colour and Luminance’ and hints at the fact that the metering system not only measures colour and luminance data, but also analyses the data provided by each point of the AF system.

The metering sensor has 63 measurement zones and is a Dual-layer design with each layer sensitive to different wavelengths of light. Electronic sensors in general are more sensitive to red light. This means when photographing subjects with lots of red in them – skin tones for example – the sensor receives a stronger signal as it only detects brightness levels. This can lead to the wrong assumption that there is more light than there really is.

The Dual-layer system overcomes this by having one layer sensitive to red/green light and one layer sensitive to blue/green light. Both these layers measure the light in their respective spectra and the metering algorithm then combines the two to provide an accurate light reading. In this way, accurate exposures can be attained in a wide range of shooting situations and irrespective of the colour of the subject being metered.

To work with the iFCL metering sensor, the EOS 7D also features a specific metering algorithm. The EOS 7D always measures focus with all AF points regardless of the selected AF mode. During the exposure reading the EOS 7D looks to see which points, in addition to the selected point, have achieved or almost achieved focus. This information lets the camera know which part of the image is the subject. It then takes metering readings from the zones corresponding to the AF points that have achieved (or almost achieved) focus and combines them with readings from all the other zones. This allows for consistent shot-to-shot exposure, even in complex situations – for example, where there are reflections from a model’s glasses. "

Canon Professional Network - iFCL metering

May not be as advanced as Nikon's brand new metering system, but it doesn't sound black & white to me.

 

[bobbyknight]

Just a thought:

the 60D is a much better action photography camera than the D7000. If you shoot Large/Fine JPEG, the d7000 fills up its buffer after about 15 to 18 frames. Then it drops to 1 frame per second. the Canon 60D on the other hand will keep on firing at full frame rate for a significantly longer period of time. don’t be misled by the marketing hype. In order to get the 100 frames per second on the D7000, you have to reduce image quality.

I wanna know how often anyone really needs to shoot 18 frames at full speed. I can't think of a sport where that is needed. You usually go for a burst of MAYBE 5-10 frames. Unless of course your just holding the shutter down for the entire play like a moron.

I'm not implying if how often or anyone does really needs to shoot 18 frames at full speed, I'm just stating and signifying the fact.
Don't delude the significance of what you just quoted.eacesign:

 

[bobbyknight]

D7000 uses the world's first 2,016 segment RGB meter. The 7D uses a 63 zone system with color measurement (probably a B&W meter with luminance).



Allan

Its funny and ironic how even D7000 features a new 2,016-segment RGB light metering system, and its being claimed as the best and more sophisticated, suffers from over exposure in a very bright lit environment and its focusing mode is inaccurate and contains error.

Canon 7D's iFCL, or Intelligent Focus Color Luminosity metering system has 63 zones, and they are linked to the 19 autofocus points. Sound familiar? The metering sensor has two layers: the top is sensitive to Red and Green, and the bottom layer to Blue and Green. So it can measure a full spectrum of RGB, rather than just luminosity; and when it compares the data between the AF system and its own color system, the Canon 7D has a better understanding of the image area; not only what colors there are, but what is where. They make up for the normal foibles of silicon sensors by detecting Red and compensating for silicon's red sensitivity, which gives it a tendency to overexpose red objects. The Canon 7D's meter, now having color vision, can make the necessary change.

The Canon 7D also uses the color information to better identify objects, merging that information with the AF sensor data -- which tells the Canon 7D not only which AF areas are in focus, but which areas are out of focus -- to calculate an object's total range of distances; in that way it can set the aperture to keep that object in focus, if desired.
The color information also becomes important when trying to focus more accurately when shooting under unusual light sources, like sodium lights, whose unusual spectrum often fools AF systems into back-focusing significantly. When light sources like these are detected, though, the Canon 7D can compensate.

 

[flea77]

Its funny and ironic that even D7000 features a new 2,016-segment RGB light metering system, and its being claimed as the best, suffers from over exposure in a very bright lit environment and its focusing mode is inaccurate and contains error.

What's funny is that any camera, and I mean ANY camera, when faced with enough latitude will either lose data in the shadows, or blow out highlights. On the Nikon, turn on ADL and except for very extreme conditions I have no problem with over exposure.

As for the focus, I find it to be dead on and fast as heck. Just as fast, and just as accurate as the 7D I have used.

Canon 7D's iFCL, or Intelligent Focus Color Luminosity metering system has 63 zones, and they are linked to the 19 autofocus points. Sound familiar? The metering sensor has two layers: the top is sensitive to Red and Green, and the bottom layer to Blue and Green. So it can measure a full spectrum of RGB, rather than just luminosity; and when it compares the data between the AF system and its own color system, the Canon 7D has a better understanding of the image area; not only what colors there are, but what is where. They make up for the normal foibles of silicon sensors by detecting Red and compensating for silicon's red sensitivity, which gives it a tendency to overexpose red objects. The Canon 7D's meter, now having color vision, can make the necessary change.

The Canon 7D also uses the color information to better identify objects, merging that information with the AF sensor data -- which tells the Canon 7D not only which AF areas are in focus, but which areas are out of focus -- to calculate an object's total range of distances; in that way it can set the aperture to keep that object in focus, if desired.
The color information also becomes important when trying to focus more accurately when shooting under unusual light sources, like sodium lights, whose unusual spectrum often fools AF systems into backfocusing significantly. When light sources like these are detected, though, the Canon 7D can compensate.

Now what is really funny is that this is a direct quote from Canon EOS 7D Digital Camera - Full Review - The Imaging Resource! which you failed to mention, and then you omit certain things, such as

Nikon uses this same type of data to track objects moving through the image area, augmenting their continuous focus mode. Canon does not. They have other fish to fry. First, they make up for the normal foibles of silicon sensors by detecting Red and compensating for silicon's red sensitivity, which gives it a tendency to overexpose red objects. The Canon 7D's meter, now having color vision, can make the necessary change.

So according to the article you were so kind to quote, Nikon uses the same type of color data merged with it's AF system. Note in the first paragraph you quoted the comment about "Sound familiar?" The comment is made because the 7D adopted the same principle that Nikon was already using. If the Nikon system was so bad (pre D7000), why would Canon copy it? So would you rather use the all new D7000 metering/AF system or the Canon copy of the older Nikon system?

Now all this aside, and despite all the errors and problems you report with the D7000, I have been using mine for months now and have had nothing but stellar results. The high ISO performance stomps the images I was getting from the 7D, the AF and metering from BOTH cameras provided me with excellent results. No matter how much you try to bash the D7000 it still keeps on providing images that both my clients and I are proud to have. And that my friend, is all that really matters.

Allan

 

[flea77]

So does that mean the D7000 has better and more accurate AF than the 1DmkIV or D3s? Since it's more than a year newer than both of those, it should be better, right? Going by that logic?

In all seriousness though, I think it would be interesting to see some kind of AF comparison tests.

I am sincerely hoping all that was in jest, because if not, well I think it speaks for itself.

Allan

 

[bobbyknight]

The Canon 7D is a great camera. I happen to have a Nikon D7000, but I'd be perfectly happy with a 7D.

Kudos!

 

[bobbyknight]

Its funny and ironic that even D7000 features a new 2,016-segment RGB light metering system, and its being claimed as the best, suffers from over exposure in a very bright lit environment and its focusing mode is inaccurate and contains error.

What's funny is that any camera, and I mean ANY camera, when faced with enough latitude will either lose data in the shadows, or blow out highlights. On the Nikon, turn on ADL and except for very extreme conditions I have no problem with over exposure.

As for the focus, I find it to be dead on and fast as heck. Just as fast, and just as accurate as the 7D I have used.

Canon 7D's iFCL, or Intelligent Focus Color Luminosity metering system has 63 zones, and they are linked to the 19 autofocus points. Sound familiar? The metering sensor has two layers: the top is sensitive to Red and Green, and the bottom layer to Blue and Green. So it can measure a full spectrum of RGB, rather than just luminosity; and when it compares the data between the AF system and its own color system, the Canon 7D has a better understanding of the image area; not only what colors there are, but what is where. They make up for the normal foibles of silicon sensors by detecting Red and compensating for silicon's red sensitivity, which gives it a tendency to overexpose red objects. The Canon 7D's meter, now having color vision, can make the necessary change.

The Canon 7D also uses the color information to better identify objects, merging that information with the AF sensor data -- which tells the Canon 7D not only which AF areas are in focus, but which areas are out of focus -- to calculate an object's total range of distances; in that way it can set the aperture to keep that object in focus, if desired.
The color information also becomes important when trying to focus more accurately when shooting under unusual light sources, like sodium lights, whose unusual spectrum often fools AF systems into backfocusing significantly. When light sources like these are detected, though, the Canon 7D can compensate.

Now what is really funny is that this is a direct quote from Canon EOS 7D Digital Camera - Full Review - The Imaging Resource! which you failed to mention, and then you omit certain things, such as

Nikon uses this same type of data to track objects moving through the image area, augmenting their continuous focus mode. Canon does not. They have other fish to fry. First, they make up for the normal foibles of silicon sensors by detecting Red and compensating for silicon's red sensitivity, which gives it a tendency to overexpose red objects. The Canon 7D's meter, now having color vision, can make the necessary change.

So according to the article you were so kind to quote, Nikon uses the same type of color data merged with it's AF system. Note in the first paragraph you quoted the comment about "Sound familiar?" The comment is made because the 7D adopted the same principle that Nikon was already using. If the Nikon system was so bad (pre D7000), why would Canon copy it? So would you rather use the all new D7000 metering/AF system or the Canon copy of the older Nikon system?

Now all this aside, and despite all the errors and problems you report with the D7000, I have been using mine for months now and have had nothing but stellar results. The high ISO performance stomps the images I was getting from the 7D, the AF and metering from BOTH cameras provided me with excellent results. No matter how much you try to bash the D7000 it still keeps on providing images that both my clients and I are proud to have. And that my friend, is all that really matters.

Allan

And that is what it is called, sarcasm my friend :mrgreen:
I'm not trying to bash D7000, just making a point on some sensible facts, thankies.

 

[cfusionpm]

So does that mean the D7000 has better and more accurate AF than the 1DmkIV or D3s? Since it's more than a year newer than both of those, it should be better, right? Going by that logic?

In all seriousness though, I think it would be interesting to see some kind of AF comparison tests.

I am sincerely hoping all that was in jest, because if not, well I think it speaks for itself.

Allan

It's all in jest. I'm just poking fun. :cheers:

 

[mjhoward]

Hmm...much of your post is contrary to what almost all reviews say...I'll break it down:

14 frames of RAW+JPG? Really?

I checked my camera, the 14 continuous shots I was remembering was for JPEG Fine only. I do get 9fps (according to the remaining buffer indicator) with 14 Bit RAW + JPEG Fine. Still a lot more than the 1/5 or 3 continuous shots you originally stated and still plenty for most people that need to 'spray and pray'.

I have a hard time caring about the slightly larger sensor (the Nikon is 23.6x15.6 and I think the Canon is like 22.9x14.7 or something).

You may not care about a larger sensor, but with the pixel pitch of the 7D being 4.16um and the pitch of the D7K being 4.73um, I'll take the extra ~29.3% light collecting abilities that the D7K sensor offers.

Better metering and flash system? I'm sorry...what? What exactly is better about the metering and flash system...since I've never seen a difference and nor has any reviewer that I've read.

Really??? Are you sure you've used both systems? It's a pretty well known fact that Nikon has a much more consistent and reliable flash system.

Higher Dynamic range? I'm also almost positive this isn't true...it just includes higher saturation and vibrance by default.

Here is a chart showing objective test results of only the sensor. This does not include any camera settings as only RAW data is analyzed:

In terms of ergonomics...very few people would agree with you that the Nikon is better in terms of form. Even the video flea keeps linking talks about the better form of the 7D multiple times. They *also* continuously say that the 7D focuses faster and better. He says he doesn't have the facts to back it up but the 7D feels much more responsive and focuses almost instantaneously.

Says you. Again, ergonomics is subjective. I happen to find the ergonomics of Nikon to be better. The video linked provides one man's opinion... just like mine.

BTW, the argument for whether or not the 7D is a better sports shooter might be better answered by asking whether or not you need faster shutter speed or better low light (high ISO) capabilities rather than FPS in burst (Spray and pray).

 

[flea77]

I wanna know how often anyone really needs to shoot 18 frames at full speed. I can't think of a sport where that is needed. You usually go for a burst of MAYBE 5-10 frames. Unless of course your just holding the shutter down for the entire play like a moron.

I'm not implying if how often or anyone does really needs to shoot 18 frames at full speed, I'm just stating and signifying the fact.
Don't delude the significance of what you just quoted.eacesign:

Actually no you are not. I can not make my D7000 stall after only 18 frames, it is MUCH higher. Maybe you have an issue with your card, or with your settings, but either way you have some kind of problem, it is NOT the D7000. Instead of arguing the point with you, I will put a video camera where my mouth is:



In the video you can clearly hear way more than 18 frames, and if you actually care to count you should count 71 clicks, the last two or three being stuttered to about 2FPS which leaves at least 68 or so solid frames at 6FPS.

Allan

PS. run the video at 720HD and pause at 59 sec to read the screen that shows it to be JPG, Fine, Large on the menu.

 

[flea77]

Here is a chart showing objective test results of only the sensor. This does not include any camera settings as only RAW data is analyzed:

Thanks, I could not for the life of me find that stupid chart!

WOW! +2 EV around ISO100, that is HUGE!

Allan

 

[DerekSalem]

There's a setting for that in the 7D. C.Fn III: Autofocus/Drive, option #3: AI Servo AF tracking method.

I never meant to imply the 7D could not do what I did. I was mearly pointing out that when you set your AF to a very small area or one single point for sports photography like I do, the number of cross type sensors becomes a non-issue. This means in sports, the way I shoot them, the 7D is actually at a disadvantage to the D7000 as far as AF goes (the AF computer on the D7000 is more advanced, mainly because it is a year and a half newer, than the one on the 7D).

Allan

Actually the focusing "computer" completely covers exactly what you're saying it doesn't. You seem to quote a lot of specifications or facts about the bodies but in reality they don't matter...it's the results. On the 7D you can set an area-spot type focusing system (basically it uses Spot focus, but also enables the 4 points surrounding it so that even if you're not following the target 100% of the time it'll continue to track it...even if it goes behind something else for a short time. This is *FAR* more advanced than anything enabled on the D7000 and much more useful for sports).

And you're going to quibble over the fact that the guy said "he has no proof"? If it feels faster...that's about all that matters. Having used both bodies for full events (you said your wife's boss owns a 7D...but that doesn't mean you've used it for more than 5 minutes) I can say that the 7D seems to focus *much* quicker (using comparable lenses - both 70-200 f/2.8 top of the line from the respective companies). How do I know? Because when I was using the D7000 there were times that while focusing on something I was wishing I had my 7D. Yes, I realize how subjective and possibly bias that is...but I'm not the first person to say it. One of my good friends is a Nikon user (professional wedding photographer...and by professional I mean part-owns a company that does more business than any other Cleveland company I know of) and agreed with me completely. He owns a D7000 and when we traded for a day (both of us were at the game) he said more than a few times how impressed he was at the focusing system.

Overall, you're calling me a hypocrite for telling you *why* it's in a different level as far as Sports photography goes. I'm not saying the D7000 is a bad camera...and I'm not saying it's on par with the 7D in many respects...I'm just saying that if you're going to use one or the other for Sports photography...there's no choice. Would I use my 7D for a wedding? Well I have before...but if I didn't own either and I had to choose...I'd go with a full-frame anyway.

 

[DerekSalem]

Hmm...much of your post is contrary to what almost all reviews say...I'll break it down:

14 frames of RAW+JPG? Really?

I checked my camera, the 14 continuous shots I was remembering was for JPEG Fine only. I do get 9fps (according to the remaining buffer indicator) with 14 Bit RAW + JPEG Fine. Still a lot more than the 1/5 or 3 continuous shots you originally stated and still plenty for most people that need to 'spray and pray'.

I have a hard time caring about the slightly larger sensor (the Nikon is 23.6x15.6 and I think the Canon is like 22.9x14.7 or something).

You may not care about a larger sensor, but with the pixel pitch of the 7D being 4.16um and the pitch of the D7K being 4.73um, I'll take the extra ~29.3% light collecting abilities that the D7K sensor offers.



Really??? Are you sure you've used both systems? It's a pretty well known fact that Nikon has a much more consistent and reliable flash system.

Higher Dynamic range? I'm also almost positive this isn't true...it just includes higher saturation and vibrance by default.

Here is a chart showing objective test results of only the sensor. This does not include any camera settings as only RAW data is analyzed:

In terms of ergonomics...very few people would agree with you that the Nikon is better in terms of form. Even the video flea keeps linking talks about the better form of the 7D multiple times. They *also* continuously say that the 7D focuses faster and better. He says he doesn't have the facts to back it up but the 7D feels much more responsive and focuses almost instantaneously.

Says you. Again, ergonomics is subjective. I happen to find the ergonomics of Nikon to be better. The video linked provides one man's opinion... just like mine.

BTW, the argument for whether or not the 7D is a better sports shooter might be better answered by asking whether or not you need faster shutter speed or better low light (high ISO) capabilities rather than FPS in burst (Spray and pray).

Well I admit I was incorrect on the dynamic range...that's impressive. I didn't know there was a difference like that. I never noticed much of a difference in my own shots but I'll have to go back and check. Pretty impressive stuff.

As for the flash system...I didn't use use the flash system with the D7000 so my own testing was seeing the differences with Nikon's other bodies and end results of the D7000 from one of my friends. The flash system seems to be identical to the wireless E-TTL that I use on my 7D...and no reviews mention a superior flash system. The wireless E-TTL that the 7D is finally on par with the wireless system Nikon's been using for quite awhile. It's the first (and I believe the only) body that Canon makes that handles the system internally (as opposed to needing a "Master" flash or unit).

And yes, ergonomics are subjective...but that was definitely not the only review saying the 7D felt better. Out of the 5-6 major reviews I read all of them either said they liked the feel and ergonomics of the 7D better or didn't mention the topic at all more than saying they're both good.

As far as shutter speed and iso capabilities...ISO25600 on the D7000 is utter trash unless you put *HEAVY* PP into it and make nothing bigger than a 4x6. You can't possibly say the 7D doesn't have ISO25600 as a con...since it's just as worthless on the D7k. At ISO12800 both bodies produce *completely* usable images straight out-of-camera if you meter correctly. The difference is that the type of noise I get out of my 7D was much easier to remove (while retaining detail) than the noise I got out of the D7000. I know flea said otherwise...but all I can go off of is my own testing on this one. Yes, it's easy to remove the noise on either camera...but removing noise is trivial if you can't retain the detail of the image.

 

[DerekSalem]

Forgot my first point in the reply...you don't actually get ~29.3% extra light...That would mean it's a full third-stop brighter...which isn't the case. It's not a linear line of some kind. At the same shutter speed, same aperture, and same ISO setting...both cameras seem to let in the same amount of light. That means the extra distance between pixel points on the sensor is irrelevant. Considering at 100% crop there's no decrease in IQ it really doesn't matter that the sensor is slightly smaller