Resources for Alternative Processes

[Bill LaMorris]

I am not sure if it helps but Freestyle has Ortho Lith film in 4x5,8x10,xand 11x14 sheets. It is inexpensive and is marketed under the Arista label. I have also tried their Arista A-B Lith developer in the dry form for 10.00 bucks and I had very good results with it. I would try 30 to 1. Bill

 

[christopher walrath]

Another source for Alt Proc info if the Creative Image Maker magazine. As a matter of fact we have a new issue coming out for December 2008. And we are always looking for Articles on alternative processing so please feel free to join us and contribute your expertise. Thank you. (link to the mag is in the sig)

 

[Robert_Maxey]

What about the hard techniques? If there is any interest, I can help you all with (Warning, takes real work):

1- Dye transfer: you will need to make your own matrix film, dyes, etc. I know one chap that does just that and he freely makes his methods and formulas available.

2- Vectographs: a printed polarized stereoscopic printing process. with matrix film and the newly available Vectograph Film, it is once again possible. Or print then with your inkjet
printer to (possibly) eliminate the need for matrices

3- The Autochrome process. Interesting sources for help in recreating an early color process.

 

[unpopular]

^^ do you have any sources on autochrome? a LONG time ago I worked with some guy on photo.net on how to revive the process. We had some ideas, but never went into prototype.

Has anyone succeeded?

 

[Robert_Maxey]

^^ do you have any sources on autochrome? a LONG time ago I worked with some guy on photo.net on how to revive the process. We had some ideas, but never went into prototype.

Has anyone succeeded?

I am moving my library and files to my new digs. I'll dig up some basic info and post it.

The big issue with autochrome is dying the starch grains and separating the smallest grains. It is a cool process, and I've seen a few good ones.

 

[Robert_Maxey]

^^ do you have any sources on autochrome? a LONG time ago I worked with some guy on photo.net on how to revive the process. We had some ideas, but never went into prototype.

Has anyone succeeded?

Forgot about this site:

Les autochromes  -  

 

[c.cloudwalker]

I remember seeing a show of nothing but autochromes (late seventies in DC, I think) and, man, those things were just gorgeous.


This is a great thread. Glad someone revived it.

 

[terri]

I remember seeing a show of nothing but autochromes (late seventies in DC, I think) and, man, those things were just gorgeous.


This is a great thread. Glad someone revived it.

Same here!

Any and all info on alternative processes is welcomed.

 

[c.cloudwalker]

Any and all info on alternative processes is welcomed.

Nothing to contribute for the time being but I hope to some time next year when I start doing darkroom work again.

One thing I've thought about doing for the longest time is to make my own paper

 

[unpopular]

Autochromes were produced by adding a single layer of dyed, finely sieved potato starch to a glass plate. These particles were applied in a single layer to a glass plate lightly covered in pitch (tree sap). In the spaces between the particles, lamp black was applies. The plate would then be pressed, flattening the particles in order to maximize translucency and minimize space between the particles. The plate would then be baked in order to fix the particles to the plate. The plate would then be covered in panchromatic emulsion.

Because the original autochrome patent covers any color photographic process which similarly uses a stochastic screen of such microfilters, we figured we could use colored gelatin in place of starch, the gelatin could be swollen such that it bumps up against neighboring particles, avoiding the need of the lampblack and requiring less pressure. The only issue we could not resolve was getting the filters to be applied to the plate in a single layer. If this could be resolved, it may be possible to sensitize the colored filters themselves, avoiding the shooting "through the glass" drawback of traditional autochromes.

One person suggested we could use inkjet printers, and instead of using a glass plate we could use transparency films. One problem exists in that inkjets inks not wholly waterproof, however this could be solved by using fixative. The printed inkjet screen would then be coated in a panchromatic emulsion.

At the time, panchromatic dyes were not well understood to the laymen. However today resources from the holography community are available which describe how to dye silver-based emulsions to provide greater red and green sensitivity, this should not be as much an issue

 

[Robert_Maxey]

Autochromes were produced by adding a single layer of dyed, finely sieved potato starch to a glass plate. These particles were applied in a single layer to a glass plate lightly covered in pitch (tree sap). In the spaces between the particles, lamp black was applies. The plate would then be pressed, flattening the particles in order to maximize translucency and minimize space between the particles. The plate would then be baked in order to fix the particles to the plate. The plate would then be covered in panchromatic emulsion.

Because the original autochrome patent covers any color photographic process which similarly uses a stochastic screen of such microfilters, we figured we could use colored gelatin in place of starch, the gelatin could be swollen such that it bumps up against neighboring particles, avoiding the need of the lampblack and requiring less pressure. The only issue we could not resolve was getting the filters to be applied to the plate in a single layer. If this could be resolved, it may be possible to sensitize the colored filters themselves, avoiding the shooting "through the glass" drawback of traditional autochromes.

One person suggested we could use inkjet printers, and instead of using a glass plate we could use transparency films. One problem exists in that inkjets inks not wholly waterproof, however this could be solved by using fixative. The printed inkjet screen would then be coated in a panchromatic emulsion.

At the time, panchromatic dyes were not well understood to the laymen. However today resources from the holography community are available which describe how to dye silver-based emulsions to provide greater red and green sensitivity, this should not be as much an issue

I understand the process. My only objection to the use of printers and film is it modifies the process in such a way that it is unappealing to me. Not really the original Autochrome process. to be fair, apparently, flexible substraits were tried a number of years later. The only technical issue I have found is the starch grains. Easier said than produced. I suppose a few samples could be made and then the particles sifted with a lab mesh screen to separate the grains by size. Or perhaps another material could be used if you want to experiment.

Interestingly, there are hundreds of fascinating color techniques covered in the patent literature. I began a search when EK stopped manufacturing matrix film,

In my opinion, if you want to use the original process, do not modify it so it no longer is the Autochrome Process. Just my humble opinion.

I found this site: Institut Lumiere - Musee - Autochromes
Do you suppose the colors were adjusted by the web designer? The first few images seem rather un-autochromey to me.

"Soon the whole world will run wild with color, and the Lumière brothers will be responsible.” - One of the Lumiere Brothers. ​

 

[unpopular]

Yes. I was very adamantly opposed to this person's idea to use inkjet printers as well for the historic reasons. I don't mind modifications that might not be "historic" but in the very least use technologies available to them. Granted, my gelatin suggestion would not have been a genuine Lumiere Autochrome, but would still be an autochrome as defined by the patent (unless the filters themselves were sensitized).

I have never seen an autochrome in person, so I don't know if these had been modified.

 

[terri]

Any and all info on alternative processes is welcomed.

Nothing to contribute for the time being but I hope to some time next year when I start doing darkroom work again.

One thing I've thought about doing for the longest time is to make my own paper

Papermaking processes are fascinating to me! Don't know why, other than the seemingly limitless ways there are to go about it.

 

[Robert_Maxey]

Any and all info on alternative processes is welcomed.

Nothing to contribute for the time being but I hope to some time next year when I start doing darkroom work again.

One thing I've thought about doing for the longest time is to make my own paper

Papermaking processes are fascinating to me! Don't know why, other than the seemingly limitless ways there are to go about it.

I know of one man that makes film that is as good or better than the same specific material once manufactured by Eastman Kodak. He does it because EK discontinued the material. I have never made paper, but in the case of film, high quality materials require a far more exacting process than many dabblers use. It requires quite a bit of effort. It can be fascinating to fool with, though.

If there is interest, I could briefly outline his process. Or post a link might be better.

 

[terri]

Nothing to contribute for the time being but I hope to some time next year when I start doing darkroom work again.

One thing I've thought about doing for the longest time is to make my own paper

Papermaking processes are fascinating to me! Don't know why, other than the seemingly limitless ways there are to go about it.

I know of one man that makes film that is as good or better than the same specific material once manufactured by Eastman Kodak. He does it because EK discontinued the material. I have never made paper, but in the case of film, high quality materials require a far more exacting process than many dabblers use. It requires quite a bit of effort. It can be fascinating to fool with, though.

If there is interest, I could briefly outline his process. Or post a link might be better.

Sure, why not? Either open a new thread here in the Alt forum, or over in the general Articles forum. Sounds great - thanks!