infrared compatible

[Fuschia]

Hey everyone, this is my first post! Exciting! hehehe

I already have an SLR, but its so old (older than I am!), and generally lacking, that I've decided to buy meself a new spiffy one. The one feature I'm looking for is compatibility with infrared film. Does anyone know of any good (but not overly expensive) infrared-film compatible SLRs? Thanks a bunch in advance!

[photobug]

Welcome to the board!

Rather than muddy the water I'll just post this link (http://pub47.ezboard.com/fphotographic5785frm3.showMessage?topicID=19.topic ) that explains the ins and outs of IR photos.

hth

Jim

[enigma]

as far as i know all slr cameras will take 35mm IR film. Let me know if I am wrong though.

[Fuschia]

there are some (I think the canon eos series) that fog high speed infrared film, I think.

[motcon]

you are correct, Fuschia; some of the canon bodies (elan II, the a2, and the eos-3) and nikon bodies (n65 and n80) use an infrared sensor in their backs and this fogs ir film badly. some have had some successes using different types of ir film, but it is a probability that there will be fogging.

what features are you wanting in a camera? this will help narrow down suggestions. to start, i know that the nikon f80 and f100 are just fine. i also shoot a pentax p3 and a konica tc (both older, manual bodies) and are fine.

[Fuschia]

I was looking for some pretty specific stuff, heh.
-infrared capability (duh)
-preferrably manual focus, or AF with manual override
-spot metering
-operates without batteries (yeah, thats a long shot)
-easy for someone with glasses to use.

Other than that, just a manual SLR that would be appropriate for an 'advanced amateur', without too too many fantastic, confusing features.

I've been doing research, and the more I try to narrow down my choices, the more choices I seem to have...its very daunting :?

[motcon]

well, if you've been doing research why don't you post some of the cameras that interest you?

[Fuschia]

here are a few I've been looking at:
Nikon N80/N75
Olympus OM 2000
Minolta X-700
Canon Rebel 2000/Ti
Pentax *ist
Pentax K1000
Canon Elan 7

[Bob_McBob]

here are a few I've been looking at:
Nikon N80/N75
Olympus OM 2000
Minolta X-700
Canon Rebel 2000/Ti
Pentax *ist
Pentax K1000
Canon Elan 7
The problem with cameras that have internal drives to advance film (ie most modern SLRs) is that many of them use an infrared sensor to count sprocket holes as the film advances. This means that one edge of the film is continuously exposed to the sensor as it's run through the camera, so IR film will be fogged on that edge. I can't tell you how bad it is with all of these models (and in fact, it seems that the degree of severity even varies by individual body with some of them). I think you can safely say that so long as the light seals are intact, most manual models like the K1000 shouldn't have problems with IR film, but don't quote me on that! I'm 100% certain that the N80 has an infrared sprocket counter, and the same probably goes for the N75. Almost every camera in Canon's current line-up has problems with IR film, too. So, the Rebel 2000 and Elan 7 will certainly fog it. As far as I know, the only current EOS model that won't is the EOS 1V, which is a tad expensive ;).

As to the other part of your requirements... The N80 can do spot metering, as can the N75. With Canon, you have to go all the way up to the EOS 3 to get true spot metering, so neither of your choices have it. The Elan 7 has some sort of partial metering system, but it's not a true spot. The K1000 and X700 use center weighted metering, and the OM 2000 does that as well as spot. I'm sure you can find spec sheets for all these cameras with Google.

Hopefully some other users can fill in the gaps here! As to fitting all your requirements, the only camera that comes to mind right now is the F-1N, oddly enough. It should work with infrared film, is manual focus, has spot metering with a focusing screen change, works at almost all shutter speeds without batteries, and should be easy enough to use with glasses. Built like a tank to boot :). Hope this helps.

Edit: I just wanted to add this: if you're interested in an autofocus body that you'll also use for manual focus a lot of the time, Canon's USM lenses with full time manual focusing are very attractive. Not only are they almost completely silent when autofocusing, but you can grab the focusing ring at any time and touch up the focus, without having to flip any switches on the body. This is probably the main reason why I prefer the Elan 7 over the N80... when the N80 autofocuses, it makes a lot of noise! After using the USM lenses, it feels very awkward to go back to the system that most Nikkor lenses/Nikon bodies use.

[motcon]

i'm out to lunch on olympus and minolta.

Bob is pretty much 'on' with his material above. nikon n60, 75, and 80 all use ir sensors.

the only sticking point w/the f-1n is that in order to change focusing areas you have to change the focusing screen and they do easily damage.

i neglected to ask the obvious: what is your budget?

[Fuschia]

wow, so many helpful answers! thanks everyone!

Motcon, my budget is pretty decent, up to 1000$ cdn, but I want to spend as little of it as possible. Hopefully, I can find a good camera, possibly secondhand, and then spend some money on extras. I already have an old Zenit 11 thats all manual (w/a selenium meter), so I was kindof shooting for an autofocus that has manual override.

[Bob_McBob]

I just wanted to add that I'm told that many of the OM series don't do very well with infrared film because of dimpling on their pressure plates. Because Kodak HIE specifically has no anti-halation layer, the light bounces off the pressure plate, and you see a lovely dimple pattern on the negative because of the reflected light. I'm no Oly expert, so I can't be more specific on the models. Any Olympus buffs here? :)

[motcon]

*note* i am not in any way pitching a brand name, i'm just noting what will work for your purposes. this is a body that hasn't yet been discussed:

http://www.nikon-image.com/eng/35mm/f80.html


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2942457202&category=30035

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2943122459&category=29971

[Bob_McBob]

I believe F80 is just the name Nikon gives the N80 outside of the US. I don't think they have any differences beyond that, however.

[motcon]

i've shot the f80....doesn't fog at all. there must be some difference, no?

[motcon]

ahhhh...now i see why. the manual states that there is an ir sensor and makes conservative statements regarding fogging.

when i shot it in europe, i didn't even give it a second thought and no fogging at all. just did some poking around and it appears that others have experienced the same; no fogging.

To: infrared@a1.nl
From: jswartzfeger@dbldistributing.com (J. Swartzfeger)
Subject: Re: Best AF 35mm SLR for IR photography?
Send reply to: infrared@a1.nl

>At 2:39 PM -0700 4/7/02, Jay Swartzfeger wrote:
>>I'm going to buy my first SLR, mainly to do B/W and IR. I was
>>seriously considering either a Rebel 2000 or an Elan 7, but then i
>>discovered both cameras have an internal IR sensor that can fog IR
>>film.
>
> http://www.teladesign.com/photo/eos-ir.html
>
> Yes, those cameras can fog IR, which is frustrating. Whether you
>should get a different camera or brand of cameras depends on how
>often you see yourself shooting IR, I guess. You could get an EOS
>10s for a lot less than a new Elan 7. It can shoot HIE without
>fogging and is a pretty capable camera.
>
> - Neil K.

Just as a followup, I visited the forums at nikonians.com and many
N80 users have shot Kodak HIE with no fogging at all.

Since I was leaning toward an N80 anyway, I think this confirmation
makes the N80 my choice.

Thanks for everyone's input!

[Fuschia]

I've actually been leaning towards Nikon, a couple have been recommended to me, the N80, the FM10 and the FM3a.

I'm very pleasantly surprised with the huge, helpful response to my question. thanks, everyone! :D