Medium Format Cameras?

[Efergoh]

I'm taking an intermediate photography class this semster at school, and I learned this evening that I will need a medium format camera. I have a pretty decent 35mm SLR, but I am sans medium.

I'm not exactly rolling in money, but I do not want to have to drop this class because of a lack of proper equipment.

Holga is not an option. What kind of recomendations do you all have to offer for an inexpensive camera that has decent quality?

[Orgnoi1]

For inexpensive I would go with an early Mamiya... something like the original m645... you may be able to find one with the "kit lens" for around $300 or so...

[terri]

I have an older Mamiya 645, and I loooove it, but if you're trying to do this inexpensively, you might want to stick with something like a Yashicamat TLR. I can't imagine you'll be forced to buy a system with interchangable lenses, you're probably just going to be taught how to load and use 120 film, so a fixed lens camera would do you nicely. They can usually be had for under $100.

There are also old folder cameras out there that take 120 film, but depending on make and model, they can get expensive as some have major collectable value.

[j_mcquillen]

For a really cheap but decent quality Medium format, you can't go far wrong with a second-hand Bronica ETRSi... quality leaf-shutter lenses mean you can use flash at any shutter speed, the build quality is good and solid and there's a wide selection of lenses available.

You should be able to pick up a mint or E++ camera body, 75mm f2.8 lens, 120 back and prism or waist-level finder for under £300

[nealjpage]

I bought a Yashica LM on eBay for $35. It works great, once you get used to needing a hand-held light meter.

[Efergoh]

I have a bid on a Kiev Model 6C

http://i3.ebayimg.com/02/i/08/33/3c/ff_1_b.JPG

Anyone know anything about this one? How high should I be willing to bid?

[ksmattfish]

Anyone know anything about this one? How high should I be willing to bid?

Click on "completed auctions", and see what they've been going for.

[santino]

I wonder what the reason could be to demand a MF camera in photography class.

[santino]

btw. I wouldn't pay more than a 100$ for that kiev.

[JamesD]

I'll agree with the posts about TLRs. They make great cameras for the money. My personal favorite is my (Beloved) Argoflex E, built near as I can figure in 1942. I've also heard nothing but praise for the Mamiya TLRs, and the Yashica's, too. If you're looking for a new one, I've heard quite a few good things and not too many bad about the Seagull TLRs (B&H has them, I know). I've been intending to eventually get one of the Seagulls.

As far as the Kievs go, I've heard about 50/50 good and bad--mostly regarding the 'Blad copies, but also a few general comments. One is that the light seals in the back tend to be iffy; you might have to do a little work, but I understand it's neither expensive, nor is it difficult if you elect to do it yourself.

Good luck with the class, and I'm sure you'll love MF!

PS: I have the same Mamiya 645 as Terri, and she forgot to mention one thing: it's positively a brick! :-P So a good, wide strap is required ;-)

[Efergoh]

btw. I wouldn't pay more than a 100$ for that kiev.
Thanks. It is at $68 right now. Total is $80 with the shipping.

I wanted to get in pretty low with MF and play around with it before I spent a mint on a camera. The proff is also requiring us to get a Holga and play with that, too. He has us making pinhole cameras this weekend.

I'm trying to figure out why he has us doing these things (pinhole and Holga) in an intermediate class when we didn't do it in the intro class last semester.

[mysteryscribe]

the kiev I had one once. Never used it for a job but it is a huge camera. Very hard to use but hey it tested out just fine. I sold it on ebay for about a hundred bucks but i guarenteed that it worked when I sold it.

If you are going to have to lug it around any, go for the twin lens cameras.

I started professional photography a long long time ago with a rollie cord paid 75 bucks back then. Now it is worth about a 100 bucks go figure.

[ksmattfish]

I've also heard nothing but praise for the Mamiya TLRs, and the Yashica's, too. If you're looking for a new one, I've heard quite a few good things and not too many bad about the Seagull TLRs (B&H has them, I know). I've been intending to eventually get one of the Seagulls.

As I understand it, the Seagulls are made on the old Yashica TLR manufacturing machines. So other than the label they are about the same, except that you can find a used Yashica for a lot cheaper than a new Seagull, and the Seagulls I've handled obviously have quality control issues compared to the Yashicas I've used.

[ksmattfish]

If you are going to have to lug it around any, go for the twin lens cameras.

I agree. If you are going to be hand holding, and toting a medium format camera around all over the place, I think it's hard to beat a TLR. My Rollieflex (that's it on the left), with accessories, flash, film, and hand held meter all fits in a smaller bag than my 35mm SLRs will. The only med format cameras that are smaller are the folders. A 6x6 folder is usually about like a fat wallet when folded; a 6x9 folder is like a fat trucker/biker wallet when folded. I like them too, but they are a little trickier to use than TLRs.

[Efergoh]

I have a pretty decent tripod. Lugging shouldn't be too much of an issue. I'll mostly use this for studio work and portraits.

I'll be using a Rolliflex knock off that a buddy is going to lend me so I'll have a little time on both by the end of the semester.

Frankly, I didn't expect to get into MF until next semester, but there is a new proff running the show.

--By the way, I got the Kiev from Ebay. Some schmuck tried to snipe it from me right at the end and it ended up getting bumped from the $68 I had bid earlier to $90 by the time it was all said and done.

[mysteryscribe]

If you want to do portraits you better start looking for a longer lens, the standard MF lenses are like a fifty on a 35 mm puts you in their face but you have a tank in your hand with the kiev.

[Efergoh]

Well, I have a long way to go before I decide to "go pro" and hang out a shingle.

I'm sure I'll pi$$ through several cameras before I find one that fit my particular taste and style.

[mysteryscribe]

You are absolutely right.

starting used is a good way to feel them all out. You can resale them and get most of your money back after you try them out.

[Don Simon]

Mamiya TLRs like the C330 have interchangeable lenses, so you could use wide-angle and portrait lenses too. They do however look quite a bit heavier than most TLRs. The Seagull I'm sure would do the job, but I'm not sure the quality of the glass would be as good as that on the old TLRs by Yashica, Mamiya, Ricoh, Minolta etc.

[mysteryscribe]

I owned a couple of seagulls when they first hit the american market.. the glass was adaquate the mechanics were pretty bad. At the time they were being made in a state factory with politcal prisoner labor... the quality control was non existant. I am sure if they are still being made they are better now.

[Luke_H]

I'm a little biased because I just got a Yashica Mat 124 G on ebay a couple weeks ago for $51.00. I love it, and don't know of a way to beat the quality for the price. Of course, I'd love a Rollei, but I'll never find one that cheap.

Here's mine:

http://static.flickr.com/98/224884688_d1d5a6ea5d.jpg

Sample photos:

http://static.flickr.com/19/99966946_dac952eedf.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/71/225892347_e8d0ff22fb.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/57/225892772_222f9fe244.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/96/234578738_a082c730c4.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/89/235421033_d66a60dbf9.jpg

[ksmattfish]

I'm a little biased because I just got a Yashica Mat 124 G on ebay a couple weeks ago for $51.00. I love it, and don't know of a way to beat the quality for the price. Of course, I'd love a Rollei, but I'll never find one that cheap.

Your photos look great. A Rolleiflex with a Planar or Xenotar lens can go upwards of $600, but I don't think you'd see a $549 between the image quality comparing your camera and a Rollei (if you could see any difference at all).

Never say never, and keep your eyes peeled. I got my Rolleiflex Planar with a whole bunch of accessories for $150 at a charity garage sale. Not quite $50, but one of the best deals I've ever found.

[Efergoh]

I got my Kiev a couple days ago. I've shot one roll with it so far. Going up to the school in a bit to develop it. I'll let you know how it shot...or rather how I shot with it.

If I did okay, I'll post a couple prints...

[ksmattfish]

I just got a Yashica Mat 124 G

Get a lens hood for your camera, and you'll get better contrast and color. I think the Yashicas all use size bayonet 1, or bay 1. I'm just making an assumption from the photo that you don't already have one; I can't tell from the quality of your photos. But you might be able to with a direct comparison with lens hood vs. without.

[Luke_H]

I don't have one. I'd like to get a rectangle hood along with some filters and perhaps a close-up kit. I just patiently surf ebay for good prices on most of the stuff though. My cheapie Epson scanner might be partially to blame, however.

[ksmattfish]

My cheapie Epson scanner might be partially to blame, however.

I'm not saying I see anything wrong with your pics, I'm just a die hard lens hood fan. I found a Kalimar square aluminum lens hood for $20 on Ebay.

Here's one for $15.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120030462100&ssPageName=MERC_VIC_ReBay_Pr4_PcN_BIN_IT&refitem=120025331948&itemcount=4&refwidgetloc=closed_view_item&usedrule1=CategoryProximity&refwidgettype=cross_promot_widget

[santino]

Never say never, and keep your eyes peeled. I got my Rolleiflex Planar with a whole bunch of accessories for $150 at a charity garage sale. Not quite $50, but one of the best deals I've ever found.

wow, my best buy so far was a Contax 159 MM for 6 euros. btw.did I mention that it became my fav. 35 SLR? (would love to have a RTS2)

[selmerdave]

Okay, so as a result of this thread I went out and got myself a 124G. Seems to be in reasonably good shape although there is a small amount of corrosion in the battery chamber so I might be out of luck with the light meter. What batteries are people using with any success?

It was quite dirty when I got it, most of the exterior stuff has cleaned up very nicely, and thank god the lenses seem fine. The one remaining problem is the focusing screen, which is filthy. Is it safe to use something like lens paper on that? If not is there any hope for cleaning it?

Thanks.

Dave

[mysteryscribe]

this is my latest medium format camera.... body is a polaroid model 80a... lens is a 6.3 anastigmat from a kodak 620 tourist... the film holder is a graflex roll film holder for 6x7 on 120 film. Took about four hours to asemble.

polaroid under $10 including shipping.
kodak camera $11 including shipping.
film back $25 approx I have had it a while.

qualities strong frame.... best bellows available in my opinion.... lens is shart as a tack and minimal alterations needed.
back is 120 the ideal 6x7 format....
in expensive..

Negatives. No rangefinder..... no x sync.... Gotta be a retro guy for this one.

http://www.f295.org/DIYforum/blahdocs/uploads/image3_9380.jpg

[Luke_H]

selmerdave: I have no idea if the light meter on my 124G works. I just use sunny 16 with it. Even if I purchased the spendy zinc air batteries, they don't last long. I shoot 100 speed film during the day.. So far, so good.

[selmerdave]

Thanks Luke. I'm not loosing too much sleep about the light meter, I have an old hand-held that seems to do as good a job as any inside of my cameras.

I have now discovered that the crap that was all over the outside of the camera (smoker?) is also inside the taking lens. With the shutter closed from the front it looks clean and clear, but holding the shutter open and looking through with the back open is not a pretty sight. So I'm going to have to take it to someone to try to get that looked after. I ran a roll of 120 through it today just to see what it comes out like, in case any other problems turn up. I'm expecting the photos will look quite crappy, but who knows, maybe it won't be that bad.

I have the number of a local guy that was recommended to me that does work on older cameras for very reasonable prices, so I'll probably try him.

Dave

[mysteryscribe]

I smoked three packs a day for twenty of my thirty years behind the lens. I never noticed any damage from the nicotine stains. Your camera might be fine with just an extra uv coating lol.

[Don Simon]

Selmerdave, if you haven't taken the Yashica in for cleaning yet you can probably save some money by cleaning the focussing screen yourself - on most TLRs the whole focussing screen unit should be easy to remove; so you can clean the screen, the mirror and the rear element of the viewing lens, making everything nice and clear.

[selmerdave]

Hi Zaphod,

With 35mm cameras I know the focusing screens are usually very fragile and should never be touched, is this different with TLR's? I don't see any easy way to get it out, but there are some screws that could probably be undone to get it out.

I have cleaned both front and rear elements, the problem appears to be the inside of the lens. The inner element has a couple of notches in the outer ring as though it could be removed, and perhaps that would allow me access to the inner elements for cleaning, but that's a little scary to me and I don't want to ruin it.

Comments? Thanks.

Dave

[Luke_H]

The first night I had my Mat 124G, I got out my jeweler's screwdrivers and immediately took out the four screws on top of the camera to get at the ground glass and viewing mirror. I cleaned the mirror and glass carefully with lens cleaner. It wasn't too complicated. I'd give it a 1 out of 4 on the DIY difficulty scale.

I didn't mess with the taking lens other than using a cotton swab soaked in lens cleaner to clean the outside elements.

[Don Simon]

I've done the same (cleaning the screen and mirror) with a Minolta Autocord. Same thing, four screws out and the whole thing lifts off. You can then easily clean the mirror and glass as it is, or if you're feeling more confident you can remove the individual plates of glass for better cleaning (the springs they're held in by can probably be removed safely, but make sure you don't lose them). The notches on the ring of the taking lens need a specific tool; best to take it to someone who knows what they're doing. It shouldn't cost too much to have the rear lens element taken off as it's not hard; it's simply a question of finding someone with the tool that does it (by the way, said tool is expensive so unless you plan on regularly taking the back off TLR lenses it's cheaper to ask or pay an knowledgeable enthusiast to do it for you).

By the way selmer, although it's generally not a good idea to touch anything near the mirror, behind the lens mount inside an SLR, high-end SLRs actually allow you remove and replace the focusing screens; the idea being that you can choose between various screens; those designed for very sharp focusing, those with lines for architecture shots etc. The same is true of TLRs.

[selmerdave]

Many thanks guys, the focusing screen is now "just spiffy". It wasn't hard I was just worried about damaging it by cleaning it the wrong way. I'll take the lens to get looked at as soon as I get a chance.

Dave

[df3photo]

I have a 1986(ish) Mamiya 645 that is great... I just bought another Mamiya 645 but newer, stillhave yet to play with it... I purchased the new one for around $200 from a friend. Great cameras!

[Efergoh]

I've had my Kiev for a couple weeks now. Been shooting with it, but tonight was the first time I got around to printing anything from it...

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=575208#post575208

[selmerdave]

Took the 124 to the shop, and it's back now.

The bad news: the lens issue was the coating on the inside element, it had gone completely bad and there was no way of cleaning it. The good news: the guy had a replacement element and replaced it. He also redid the light seals while he had it open, and it turns out the light meter works perfectly, he gave me the right battery for it. That all added up to about 90% of the purchase price, but it's not that much of a total and if I get what I'm hoping I'll get out of it I think it's well worth it. So now it should be working perfectly, I have a roll of 220 in it so when I get that back I'll report on the results.

Dave

[nealjpage]

Well, I'm back to this thread. I managed to break my Yashica TLR the other day :er: and now it's time to get a new MF. I really liked the weight of the TLR as well as the cool "retro"-ness of it, but I never really did enjoy shooting with it. It just seemed akward to me. My appetite has been wetted for MF, though, and I'm jonesin' for a replacement. I haven't gotten a clear consensus if the prisim-view 645 (Bronica ETRsi, for example) are simple to use for hand-held work. I have a tripod, but don't really like to use it. I realize from some of the other discussions that 645 is a dying format, but at the moment I'm willing to get something a little more SLR-like feel while compromising a bit on the size of the neg. Life's a compromise, right? :) My budget's also not that large, so I figured that a decent body with a back and good glass should fit within my meger budged if I stick with the 645s. Thanks everybody.

[Efergoh]

The Kiev pictured above is "SLR like."

It is a heavy tank, but it shoots pretty well, and is easy as pie to use (so long as you have a hand held light meter). The view finder comes off, and you can shoot it like a TLR without having to consider the stacked lenses.

It is a Pentax knock off if you'd rather buy the real deal. I had my Kiev in hand for less than $100, and it shoots like $1000.

[Steph]

I owned a couple of seagulls when they first hit the american market.. the glass was adaquate the mechanics were pretty bad. At the time they were being made in a state factory with politcal prisoner labor... the quality control was non existant. I am sure if they are still being made they are better now.

I guess I am bit late answering this thread... Seagulls are still made and sold on the website below. However they are not cheap and a used Yashica 124G from eBay is probably a better bet in terms of quality.

http://www.firstcall-photographic.co.uk/scp/35mm_Cameras/Medium_Format_Cameras.html

[Cuervo79]

interesting read, I´ve seen the different photos and the richness of them makes me want to buy one, but I still haven´t got everything out of my 35mm nor my dslr so I´ll just keep reading... hehehe