Equiment needed for Infrared pictures?

[Garbz]

I've read a lot of infrmation on the development and the setting of infrared film on this forum, but the question is can I do it?

I have a Nikon FE (old but the pictures are still perfect). The 2 lenses i use most are a Nikkor 50mm 1:1.8 which might I add is one of the sharpest 15year old lenses i've ever used, and the other lens that I use is an old and hopfully to be replaced this summer Tokina 28-70mm 1:4, usually used with a Hoya 62mm Polarising filter. Both lenses have an infrared adjustment scale.

Now that's what I have the question is what i need.

Obviously I need film. Are there differnt types like there is with normal film? If there's any people from Brisbane Australia reading this, any idea where I can find some?

I've also read that I need some type of filter, red I believe? What are the consequences of not using this filter?

Finally with this red filter and film I take black and white photos yes? How do I achieve this effect? http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11210&highlight=infrared
Was the picture digitally altered or was there some other type of filter used?

Also as an afterthought does infrared film need any specal developing conditions? Or can i take it to my local rabit photo and get their fuji machine to develop it like every other photo?

[terri]

The link you looked at were images by Digital Matt - let that be your guide. :wink: He shoots all digital and those were manipulated in PS, I believe. He does very good PS work, as these images prove. It's an effect you can get in PS or use a digital IR filter.

I prefer the look and grain of Kodak HIE. Just personal perference. It can be ordered online through B&H Photo, and they ship anywhere, I believe.

As far as the camera, I can't advise you specifically. Newer cameras come with infra-red sensors that will leak onto real IR film, such as Kodak HIE. I am told this happens along the film edges, but I haven't dared try it with my Pentax MZ-S. It warns against it, and I stay away from it. I shoot all my IR film through my old Pentax ME, which I rate at 360. Your older Nikon probably allows true IR film, but maybe the Nikon site (or manual if you have one) will be more exact for you.

If you're using Kodak HIE, you will want a #25 red filter. The consequence of not using the filter means only you're not going to block blue light and will end up with pretty normal-looking B&W images. Bracket all your shots and keep a log, so you can see what you like best.

You will load and unload this film in total darkness, or a changing bag. Any lab that develops B&W will develop this for you, but make sure they don't pop open the canister on the counter! :wink: Let them know it's HIE and given them your ISO, you should be fine.

This is my most recent HIE image. You may or may not like the grain of HIE, but this image does show the HIE "glow" nicely, so you have some comparison. Have fun!

http://www.thephotoforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10585/normal_fair2.jpg

[GerryDavid]

Apperantly all digital camera's can see infrared, but theres usually a filter to block some or most of that. But you can remove the piece of hardware that filters it out and put on a filter on the front that will block regular light so it just see's infnrared, but you cant put the camrea back to the way it was after you do it. I dont recommend doing this to a dslr unless you got money to spend, hehe.

There was a thing on the screen savers for this, but it was over my head.

With film cameras, the newer ones do have the infrared spocket counter that will expose the bottom of your film, as terri said, but something else you have to pay attention to is the back of the film door. It has to be flat and smooth, if theres ridges or something, that will show up in your film since infrared dont have the backing to it like regular film has, or something like that.

I want to try infrared sometime, but right now my slr cant do it due to the infrared thing and the film door has a pattern.

[Garbz]

luckily this is where the joys of my camera come in. I've spent quite a bit of my evening scouring google for more information.

My Nikon FE is about 15 years old. It definatly doesn't have a film counter, and the door is perfectly flat. The pannel has no hole that light can get in, and TTL metreing which apparently is a must in infrared film.

From what i've read the Kodak HIE is an ISO 400 film. Setting the camera to ISO 400 and bracketing one shot above and one shot below will yield good results.
As i initially intend to shoot landscapes the DoF isn't a problem since i'll most likely use an aperature of 11/16/22 and I can compensate with the markings on the lens.

From what i've read the kodak HIE is a very toubled film. Are you sure ANY B&W lab will do it? As far as I can see most of the developing machines are in plain light so I doubt the film will survive getting loaded. (but i don't know much about the labs so i may be wrong).

Finally the #25 red filter with a 62mm ring should be easy to get, but can I use this filter with other film too? A certain Konica film has been mentioned a few times. This film also apprently isn't suseptable to light like the Kodak, and can be developed at any lab. Correct?

/EDIT: Dammit forgot to say, nice pic :D

[terri]

Thank you! :D You should find a pro lab and talk to them over the phone. I know of 2 places in my area that will develop it (but I don't use them), and that's all I know. Call around. Like I said, you don't want to have them popping off the canister top when you come in and treating it like normal B&W film.

If you want, you can use the red filter on regular B&W film, it would darken skies and add contrast, similar to a deep orange filter. I pretty much just consider my red filter my HIE filter - but then, I shoot a fair amount of HIE. I also develop it myself, or my husband does it for me. It's a thin emulsion but we develop in plain old T Max and it has not disappointed. You call it a "troubled" film...I prefer to say "unpredictable". :wink:

btw, HIE is not DX coded, so your camera might try to tell you the film isn't loaded correctly. Don't know where you read it's rated 400. You can set your ISO pretty much where you like. I've seen portraits done with HIE set at either 100 or 200 - more medium speed - with beautiful results. You have great freedom to experiment with this film. The combo I've settled on was done by trial and error, and we're pretty happy sticking to 360 ISO and the T Max developer.

You mentioned Konica; we've had that developed at a pro lab before and are still struggling to find our own magic combo at home to duplicate those results. Yes, you can load it low light so it's easier handling than the HIE. It's a s-l-o-w film at 50 ISO, so you are immediately tripod-dependent, which may or may not matter to you. It has a tighter grain than the HIE. It can be a beautiful film, but I like the look and grain of HIE, for all its demanding ways.

You need to get yourself a few rolls and try different ISO speeds, keep exposure logs and decide what's best for you. It's a time/money investment at first, but this is true with any excellent film you want in your fridge for constant use. And you can end up with ethereal results. :D

[Garbz]

Unpredictable can be good from my experiments, so i'm looking forward to shooting a roll. I haven't heard that it's ISO400 rated. Does IR film even have this rating? I just read on a website which had a lot of detail about this perticular film that the photographer's best results came at the camera set at ISO 400. But I can see already the first roll is going to have only 3 or 4 useful images on it :roll:

Tripod does not matter to me since when i'm in the mood to actually take pictures I usually have one with me regardless.

I doubt the camera will complain. Like I said it's a 15 year old Nikon. The most advanced feature is the TTL light meter. It definatly does not know what film i have loaded in there, if any at all. Eveidently now that is a good thing 8)

Thanks for all your help i'll call around next week and see what I can find in my area. I hope it doesn't cost too much more then normal film. Otherwise I'll need another job for my expensive habbits. :?

[terri]

Otherwise I'll need another job for my expensive habbits.


Get used to it, brutha!!! :wink:

Good luck with it, hope it does well for you. :D

[Garbz]

So here I am. Almost 1 whole year later and starting this up again!!!!!

I just bought a Hoya HCM 25A red filter. This seems to be the stuff. Also have a roll of Kodak HIE. Before I go and shoot, and since it's been a year I'm wonding if anyone has any further experience with this film / lense?

I quick read over what I know shows that for a #25 red filter the speed should be set at ISO200 and bracketed 1 stop up and down. I'll have to jump straight to thoes stops since I'd rather not have 5 images of the same subject. I've also read that at spring time (now), when photographing lots of follage, it's a good idea to pick ISO360 as the starting point.

Anyone have anything to add before i go and take my first pictures with my new toys ?

[Meysha]

If you're still looking for a place in brisbane that sells the HIE film, then Photo Continental stocks it all the time. You sometimes have to order the colour HIE, but they usually have B&W there all the time. I got my boyfriend to pick me up a couple of rolls yesterday and so next week I'm gonna go crazy with it.

I was just about to ask the same question as you though... what ISO do you set it to? or how do you guess what ISO to use?

[terri]

With the #25 filter and lots of foliage I swear by 360 as a workable ISO, bracketing virtually guarantees you'll get some great negatives.

Who is going to do your developing? All your careful exposure work will be ruined if it gets overdeveloped.

[Meysha]

I shall report back in 2 weeks time terri! Thanks so much for being so patient!

[terri]

I shall report back in 2 weeks time terri! Thanks so much for being so patient! Are you kidding?? Anytime! :D

Go kick butt, Vicky. ;) You're gonna have a blast with this stuff.

[Garbz]

lol OMG i can't believe one year later the same person offers help :D

Ok i'll start with 360. Bracket a full stop or half a stop either side? Also photo continental is where i got the HIE film. I was thinking of returning the film there to get processed, however today I ran into an art gallery which recomended a printing shop on the northside which specializes in b&w film and i'll give them a call when i get finished.

What's colour infra red? Doesn't that defeat the purpose?

[Meysha]

Colour infrared shifts the colours... so greens become a magenta colour etc. I'm not sure what the other colours become. But do a google image search and it'll come up with heaps for sure.

What's the shop on the north side called? That might be a little closer to my boyfriend's place... coz he lives in paddington, but he does work down near photo continental, which is handy for me. :lol:

[Garbz]

There's two that I know of. One is on Ann street between the valley and newfarm. It's has a name like ..... .... B&w photo development specialists or something like that. That's the one I was originally going to ask.

I was up in montville today and a shop owner of the gallery up there handed me the pricelist for "Allchromes" they are in Chester Street, near commercial rd in Newstead.

I'll give both a call soon.

Terri, I saw that love picture of a building you have in your linked gallery and that got me thinking. ISO360 for Follage and greens, so what about for buildings and things that generally reflect less infrared?

[Garbz]

Meysha I called Allchromes today and they said they don't officially do Kodak HIE film. They can develop it in their darkroom, but they don't have the specified developer. They've had mixed results there. Apparently the other shop doesn't do HIE film either.

So back to photocontinental it is :(

[Meysha]

Thanks for that Garbz.

[DIRT]

Process the film yourself. It isnt that hard or expensive (well, startup might be) but if you plan on shooting it often you will appreciate the consistency of your negs and not worry about the lab botching it.

[Garbz]

startup costs have long kept me from doing this. Plus i have no suitable dark room, etc. We'll soon see if it's something I find worth taking shots in again :D

[binglemybongle]

Hi all.

Ive finally got my HIE developed. Took it home to look at the negs then went back and got a couple of prints of what i hoped were going to be the best results.

All was well except very grainy. Had them printed as 8 x 6.

Would i be right in thinking that i just need to bring the shutter speed right down to rectify this? I was using around about 1/30 sec.

As far as ISO goes. I tried all different combinations of ISO shutter and f-stop.

I agree with 360, the prints i made were slightly (very slightly) over exposed.

I want to ask a question though. Although i made notes of everything when i took the shots im having doubts of what i wrote. The two that i had printed (which are very similar, almost identical results) were shot as follows:

1 - Using the camera meter without the lens, at ISO 400, fit the hoya r72 filter and shoot.

2 - Metered using camera THROUGH the filter at ISO 400 shot with filter on.

Is this possible that i got the same results with the two different methods?

Just to slear up terri. Do you mean you set to ISO 360 then meter throught through the filter? Or do you meter without and then add the filter?

[terri]

Just to slear up terri. Do you mean you set to ISO 360 then meter throught through the filter? Or do you meter without and then add the filter? I'm sorry for the confusion. Whenever I babble about HIE, I try to mention that I use an old Pentax ME and always meter TTL - filter ON. I set my ISO at 360 and always use a #25 red filter. I meter and shoot normally unless I am in a landscape situation with lots of green foliage, then I use my exposure compensating wheel at 1/2 x to bracket my shots.

I have always had good luck with HIE metering this way.

I have found the development of HIE the hardest thing about it. I like to use TMax developer with distilled water, and very gentle agitation - no more than once a minute, for 6 minutes at room temp, which I believe keeps the grain down. I still have gotten pinholes this way, though. It's pretty reliable, but nothing's infallible.

No question, the stuff can be tricky! ;)

[Meysha]

GRRRRRR! Terri I'm sooo annoyed at myself. I was all ready to go and load my camera with the HIE stuff... I'd even gone down to a local photoshop to use their darkbag to load it in,,, then I'm juuuust about to ask if I can use their bag when I realise, I wont be able to use this film! :-( Coz my camera's a canon and it's got the infrared sensor thingy in it, and would've ruined the film.

Lucky I remembered before I loaded the film!!! So now I've got to buy a camera. :-( hang on that should be.... So now I've got to buy a camera :mrgreen:

[terri]

GRRRRRR! Terri I'm sooo annoyed at myself. I was all ready to go and load my camera with the HIE stuff... I'd even gone down to a local photoshop to use their darkbag to load it in,,, then I'm juuuust about to ask if I can use their bag when I realise, I wont be able to use this film! :-( Coz my camera's a canon and it's got the infrared sensor thingy in it, and would've ruined the film.

Lucky I remembered before I loaded the film!!! So now I've got to buy a camera. :-( hang on that should be.... So now I've got to buy a camera :mrgreen: I've not had to test this theory, but apparently the risk of fogging from the IR film advance sensors is limited to the sprocket holes. The best way to ensure it stays there is to compose your shot, then "step back" to give yourself a bit more cropping area in each frame, should there be any fogging infringement into the frame.

But again - I've not personally tested this theory and continue to use my old ME (since I can still use all my new Pentax glass with that cam).

It was also a great excuse to outfit the Zeiss Contaflex system with more lenses than what it came with. :mrgreen: I should be shot, really, for not having run any HIE through that camera yet. ;)

Keep us posted, girl! :D

[Meysha]

Terri, what would the fogging look like? Would it look like 'light leaks' but in more of a vignetting fashion at the bottom and top of the frame?

It's just that, if I can expect that to happen, I could use it to my advantage... or try to at least. I think I better find some examples of people actually doing it, before I blow the month's budget on it. Everything film is so expensive in Oz!

[terri]

Fogging is seeing areas of white haze over the film. I suppose there are instances where it could look artsy, like we like our Holga vignetting and the occasional well-placed light leak. ;) But fogging is a mark of inappropriately exposed film and you can't really predict where it will show up, and sometimes it "light pipes", running a lot further than you think it will.

If you want to try it with your newer camera, just g'wan and do it. ;) I really need to run some through my Pentax MZ, too, just to see how bad it might be. Like I said, I would compose my shot, then step back a little to allow for cropping if the fogging leaks into the frame.

[Garbz]

AHHHHHH. Terri if you would have said earlier you develop it with a diluted TMax developer I would have dropped it into allchromes. They told me the best they can do is use a TMax developer and hope for the best. But now my photos are already in the mail to the southside :S

Anyway if you haven't already guessed the film is finished. I took all pictures at ISO330 I think. My camera only has 2 ISO settings between 200 and 400. And took 3 pictures +/- 1 stop. I can't wait to get the film back :D

/EDIT: Diluted not distilled :S

[terri]

Let us know how they turn out, Garbz. If you really want it developed in TMax, you might could call these people and tell them 1:4 in distilled water is what you're after. :bigangel: Probably too late, but it will be interesting to see how they do for you.

If you are even halfway pleased with the results, you should buy a tank and develop at home. Especially when using a changing bag, any interior closet after sundown is a good enough darkroom to load the film. Tust me on that. :lol:

[Garbz]

that's exactly how it was loaded. :) Anyway films gone, will be back next week with the results ...